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To: Pyro7480
SSPXers: What is your take on posts #149 and #160?

The advice in those posts (to work within the system) is of course the most prudent course in normal situations. The whole question comes down to whether this is really a normal situation or not. If one says "The situation today is grave but not significantly different than other crises the Church has faced," then one would want to work within the system. Certainly no one ever violates Canon Law for trivial reasons.

But if one comes to the alternate conclusion, that the situation today is of a fundamentally different nature than past crises, that probably no situation since at least the Arian heresy of the 5th century has so seriously challenged the Church, that we are not faced with individual personal defections but with widespread institutional apostasy and heresy, then if that were the case, then quietly working within the system is just as clearly not the right answer. If there is a concerted world-wide plan to destroy the Catholic faith and the Catholic liturgy, then one is required to take a stance of clear and public opposition. One cannot say, "I don't care about the mass defection of the Catholic Church as long as I can get an indult for myself and my 100 fellow parishioners."

230 posted on 07/16/2004 10:48:01 AM PDT by Maximilian
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To: Maximilian; Pyro7480; sinkspur; gbcdoj; BlackElk; ultima ratio; sandyeggo

Max, it should be kept in perspective that the entire Traditionalist "crisis" is something perceived to exist only in the mind of 4 legitimate Bishops out of about 3000 circa 1970 (Blaise Kurz, Marcel Lefbvre, Ngo Dinh Thuc, Castro de Mayer), ~1000 priests (out of 400,000 in 1970), and ~1,000,000 of the faithful (out of 1 billion). Really even today, add up the number of legitimate traditionalist priests (SSPX, FSSP, SSPV, IMRI, ICK, independents, etc. - the total is probably about 1000 and certainly less than 2000) and give them each 1000 parishoners/followers on average, and the situation is hardly any different from 30 years ago.

The rest of the Catholic world (say about 99.9% of it) is not even aware there is a controversy about these topics that Traditionalists feel are so important.

And of that 0.1% that thinks there is a big problem and controversy, perhaps 25-50% are still formal members of a regular Catholic parish.

In perspective, we are talking about an inifinitessimally small number of people even being aware of some of the issues being raised. It hardly compares to the Arian crisis in that regard.


242 posted on 07/16/2004 11:04:09 AM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: Maximilian

Brilliant posts.


247 posted on 07/16/2004 11:10:18 AM PDT by ultima ratio
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To: Maximilian
...we are not faced with individual personal defections but with widespread institutional apostasy and heresy, then if that were the case, then quietly working within the system is just as clearly not the right answer.

This is why conservatives lose. We think in either-or terms when we should do both. Work within the Church to bring her back to her true roots and work without to maintain that pure objective. The left does it all the time, that is why they are so successful.

259 posted on 07/16/2004 11:30:11 AM PDT by TradicalRC (From big government conservatives, good Lord deliver us.)
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