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To: Hermann the Cherusker; AAABEST; Canticle_of_Deborah; ultima ratio; narses; Land of the Irish

SSPXers: What is your take on posts #149 and #160?


168 posted on 07/16/2004 8:02:29 AM PDT by Pyro7480 (Sub tuum praesidium confugimus, sancta Dei Genitrix.... sed a periculis cunctis libera nos semper...)
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To: Pyro7480
SSPXers: What is your take on posts #149 and #160?

The advice in those posts (to work within the system) is of course the most prudent course in normal situations. The whole question comes down to whether this is really a normal situation or not. If one says "The situation today is grave but not significantly different than other crises the Church has faced," then one would want to work within the system. Certainly no one ever violates Canon Law for trivial reasons.

But if one comes to the alternate conclusion, that the situation today is of a fundamentally different nature than past crises, that probably no situation since at least the Arian heresy of the 5th century has so seriously challenged the Church, that we are not faced with individual personal defections but with widespread institutional apostasy and heresy, then if that were the case, then quietly working within the system is just as clearly not the right answer. If there is a concerted world-wide plan to destroy the Catholic faith and the Catholic liturgy, then one is required to take a stance of clear and public opposition. One cannot say, "I don't care about the mass defection of the Catholic Church as long as I can get an indult for myself and my 100 fellow parishioners."

230 posted on 07/16/2004 10:48:01 AM PDT by Maximilian
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To: Pyro7480; Hermann the Cherusker
SSPXers: What is your take on posts #149 and #160?

Herman is a smart and excellent poster, but the law he cites is totally inapplicable to Society priests as it pertains to and regulates parish priests, not all priests.

The Society notwithstanding, there are all types of situations where priests don't fall under the authority of the local Bishop. Brotherhoods, the Paulists, Father Wickens etc.

There are people married on boats, just as there are masses given on the battlefield, just as you as a layperson can baptize someone in certain limited situations. I'm not much of a canon lawyer but the more I read the more it seems that the historic church seems more focused on the issue that the sacraments be administered as opposed to how they are administered.

Incidentally the "mass anywhere" concept (which is inherent throughout canon) is how the society is able to perform valid masses.

If any of the society sacraments were not valid you'd hear people in authority screaming bloody murder, but those of good conscience won't and don't. Just as they won't take action against Society worshipers because they know better. They know we're doing no evil and committing no sin, so the best they can say and remain credible and honest is to make claims of "irregularity", "error" etc.

Also, if I may be permitted a very uneducated guess I would venture that many of these kinds of laws - such as the one Herman posted - were addressing issues during times when intra-parish politics were quite intense.

232 posted on 07/16/2004 10:51:12 AM PDT by AAABEST (Lord have mercy on us)
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To: Pyro7480
SSPXers: What is your take on posts #149 and #160?

Since it is a fact SSPX is not in schism, I usually ignore those posters who stop their feet and insist otherwise.

300 posted on 07/16/2004 2:25:07 PM PDT by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: Pyro7480; AAABEST; Canticle_of_Deborah; ultima ratio; narses
1971 - 1976

The Archbishop expected to wait a long time before the second canonical step, the approval of Rome, was effected. Only four months elapse until February 18, 1971, when Cardinal Wright, prefect for the Sacred Congregation for the Clergy, officially approves and encourages the Society. The Roman document recognizes the Society’s international character and the fact that many bishops from the world praise and approve it. The Cardinal is happy that the Society will contribute to the distribution of the Catholic clergy in the world.

Much to the surprise of our founder, his small work of faith receives a further encouragement. When a few priests from the outside wish to join him in the Society’s work, the Archbishop submits the case to Rome, and the Roman Curia, anticipating his desires, detaches totally these priests from their bishops and even from their religious orders to make them depend exclusively from the Society of Saint Pius X. This official act of Rome recognizes the right of the Society of Saint Pius X to incardinate its members.

excerpt from A SHORT HISTORY OF THE SSPX

329 posted on 07/16/2004 5:31:52 PM PDT by Land of the Irish
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