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Father Zigrang suspended by Bishop Joseph Fiorenza
Christ or Chaos ^ | 15th July 2004 | Dr Thomas Droleskey

Posted on 07/15/2004 6:17:56 PM PDT by AskStPhilomena

Catholics exhibit fidelity to the Tradition of Holy Mother Church in many ways. Each of us has a distinctive, unrepeatable immortal soul that has personal characteristics of its own not shared by anyone else. Not even identical twins are the same in every respect. This plurality of souls in the Mystical Bride of Christ is reflected in the many different communities of men and women religious that have developed over the Church’s history. Each community has its own charism and mission. Ideally, each community of men and women religious should be totally faithful to everything contained in the Deposit of Faith and expressed and protected in the authentic Tradition of the Church. The means of expressing this fidelity, however, will vary from community to community.

What is true of communities of men and women religious is true also of us all, including our priests. Some priests have the patience of Saint Francis de Sales or Saint John Bosco, meek and mild, able to handle the rough seas that beset Holy Mother Church and/or themselves personally with perfect equanimity. Other priests have had the bluntness of St. John Mary Vianney and St. Padre Pio, mincing no words in their sermons about the necessity of rooting out sin and the possibility of going to Hell for all eternity. Both St. John Mary Vianney and St. Padre Pio were devoted to their role as an alter Christus in the confessional, using that hospital of Divine Mercy to administer the infinite merits of Our Lord’s Most Precious Blood to bring sacramental absolution to those to whom they had preached in blunt terms.

In addition to fidelity, though, there are different ways of expressing courage in the midst of persecutions and sufferings. Some Catholics stood up quite directly to the unjust and illicit dictates of the English Parliament, which had been passed at the urging of King Henry VIII, at the time of the Protestant Revolt in England. Others kept their silence for as long as was possible, as was the case with Saint Thomas More, who discharged his mind publicly only after he had been found guilty on the basis of perjured testimony of denying the supremacy of the king as the head of the Church in England. Some priests in the Elizabethan period, such as St. Edmund Campion, almost dared officials to arrest them as they went to different locales to offer Holy Mass or as they took groups to the Tower of London. Other priests went quietly from house to house to offer the Traditional Mass underground as both the civil and ecclesiastical authorities in England used every sort of pressure imaginable to convince holdout “Romans” to go over to Protestantism and worship in the precusor liturgy of our own Novus Ordo Missae. Still other newly ordained priests came over from France, knowing that they might be able to offer only one Mass in England before they were arrested and executed.

The same thing occurred in France 255 years after the arrest and execution of Saints John Fisher and Thomas More. Some priests simply stood up to the agents of the French Revolution. Others, such as Blessed Father William Chaminade, donned disguises as they went from place to place, much as Blessed Padre Miguel Augustin Pro did in Mexico prior to his execution at the hands of the Masonic revolutionaries in Mexico on November 23, 1927. Ignatius Cardinal Kung, then the Bishop of Shanghai, China, was hauled before a dog-track stadium in his see city in 1956 before thousands of spectators. The Red Chinese authorities expected him to denounce the pope and thus to save himself from arrest. The brave bishop exclaimed the same thing as Blessed Padre Miguel Augustin Pro, “Long live Christ the King,” and was hauled off to spend over thirty years in prison before being released. Oh, yes, there are so many ways for priests to demonstrate their fidelity and courage in the midst of persecutions and sufferings.

Well, many bishops and priests who are faithful to the fullness of the Church’s authentic Tradition have been subjected to a unspeakable form of persecution in the past thirty-five to forty years: treachery from within the highest quarters of the Church herself. Men who have held fast to that which was believed always, everywhere and by everyone prior for over 1,900 years found themselves termed as “disobedient,” “schismatic,” “heretical,” and “disloyal” for their resisting novelties that bore no resemblance to Catholicism and a great deal of resemblance to the very things that were fomented by Martin Luther and John Calvin and Thomas Cranmer, things for which Catholics half a millennium ago shed their blood rather than accept. Many priests who have tried to remain faithful to Tradition within the framework of a diocesan or archdiocesan structure have been sent to psychiatric hospitals or penalized by being removed from their pastorates or by being denied pastorates altogether. Others, though, have faced more severe penalties.

Angelus Press, which is run by the Society of Saint Pius X, put out a book earlier this year, Priest, Where is Thy Mass? Mass, Where is Thy Priest?, which discussed the stories of seventeen priests who had decided to offer only the Traditional Latin Mass and to never again offer the Novus Ordo Missae. One of those priests is my good friend, Father Stephen Zigrang, who offered the Traditional Latin Mass in his [now] former parish of Saint Andrew Church in Channelview, Texas, on June 28-29, 2003, telling his parishioners that he would never again offer the new Mass.

As I reported extensively at this time last year, Father Zigrang was placed on a sixty day leave-of-absence by the Bishop of Galveston-Houston, the Most Reverend Joseph Fiorenza, and told to seek psychological counseling, preferably from Father Benedict Groeschel, C.F.R. Father Zigrang took his two month leave of absence, making a retreat at Saint Thomas Aquinas Seminary in Winona, Minnesota, in early August of last year, returning to the Houston area to take up residence in the Society’s Queen of Angels Chapel in Dickinson, Texas. Bishop Fiorenza met with Father Zigrang in early September, seeming at the time to let him stay for a year with the Society while the diocese continued to pay his health insurance premiums. Within days of that early September meeting, however, Fiorenza was threatening to suspend Father Zigrang by the beginning of October if he did not vacate Queen of Angels and return to a diocesan assignment.

October of 2003 came and went. Father Zigrang heard no word from Bishop Fiorenza or the chancery office until he received the following letter, dated Jun 10, 2004:

Dear Father Zigrang:

Once more I appeal to you to cease your association with the Society of St. Pius X and return to your responsibilities as a priest of the Diocese of Galveston-Houston

Your continued association with a schismatic group which has severed communion with the Holy Father is confusing and a scandal to many of Christ’s faithful. You are well aware that without appropriate jurisdiction the marriages witnessed and confessions heard by the priests of the St. Society of St. Paul X are invalid and people are being lead to believe otherwise. You are also aware that the Holy See has asked the faithful not to attend Masses celebrated in the Chapels of the Society of St. Pius X.

I plead with you to return by July 1, 2004, to the presbyterate of the Diocese of Galveston-Houston and receive a priestly assignment from me. This letter serves as a penal precept (c. 1319) and is a final canonical warning (c. 1347.1). If I do not hear from you by June 30, 2004, I will impose a just penalty for disobeying a legitimate precept (c. 1371.2). The just penalty may include suspension (c. 133.1), nn 1-2: prohibition of all acts of the power of orders and governance.

I offer this final warning after consultation with the Holy See and will proceed to impose a penalty if you persist in disobedience to a legitimate precept. It is my fervent hope and constant prayer that you not remain out of union with the Holy Father.

Fraternally in Christ,

Joseph A. Fiorenza, Bishop of Galveston-Houston

Reverend R. Troy Gately, Vice Chancellor

Overlooking Bishop Fiorenza’s John Kerry-like gaffe in terming the Society of Saint Pius X the “St. Society of St. Paul X,” the letter reproduced above makes the erroneous assertion that the Society of Saint Pius X is in schism and that they are not in communion with the Holy Father. A series of articles in The Remnant has dealt with this very issue at great length. Fiorenza’s contentions that the marriages witnessed and the confessions heard by the Society of Saint Pius X are invalid also flies in the face of the fact that the Holy See “regularized” the Society of Saint John Mary Vianney in Campos, Brazil, without demanding the convalidation of the marriages their priests had witnesses nor asking that confessions be re-heard. The glaring inconsistency of the canonical rhetoric of Vatican functionaries and their actual practices continues to be lost on Bishop Fiorenza.

Father Zigrang did not respond to Bishop Fiorenza’s June 10 letter. He received another letter, dated July 2, 2004, the contents of which are so explosive as to contain implications for the state of the Church far beyond the case of Father Zigrang and far beyond the boundaries of the Diocese of Galveston-Houston:

Dear Father Zigrang:

With great sadness I inform you that, effective immediately, you are suspended from the celebration of all sacraments, the exercise of governance and all rights attached to the office of pastor (Canon 1333.1, nn 1-2-3).

This action is taken after appropriate canonical warnings (canon 1347) and failure to obey my specific directive that you cease the affiliation with the schismatic Society of St. Pius X and accept an assignment to serve as a priest of the Diocese of Galveston-Houston (Canon 1371.2).

I want to repeat what I have said to you in person and in the written canonical warnings, that I prayerfully urge you to not break communion with the Holy Father and cease to be associated with the schism which rejects the liciety of the Novus Ordo Mass, often affirmed by Pope John Paul II. This schism also calls into question the teachings of the Second Vatican Council regarding ecumenism and the enduring validity of the Old Testament covenant God established with the people of Israel.

Your return to full union with the Church and to the acceptance of an assignment to priestly ministry in the Diocese of Galveston-Houston will be joyfully received as an answer to prayer. May the Holy Spirit lead and guide you to renew the promise of obedience you made on the day of your ordination.

Fraternally in Christ,

Most Reverend Joseph A. Fiorenza Bishop of Galveston-Houston

Reverend Monsignor Frank H. Rossi Chancellor

cc: His Eminence, Cardinal Dario Castrillon Hoyos, Commissio Ecclesia Dei

Bishop Fiorenza’s July 2, 2004, letter is riddled with errors.

First, The Society of Saint Pius X does not reject the liciety of the Novus Ordo Missae. Its founder, the late Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, criticized the nature of the Novus Ordo and pointed out its inherent harm. That is far different from saying that the Novus Ordo is always and in all instances invalid. Is Bishop Fiorenza claiming that any criticism of the Novus Ordo and efforts to demonstrate how it is a radical departure from Tradition are schismatic acts? Is Father Romano Thommasi, for example, to be taken to task for writing scholarly articles, based on the very minutes of the Consilium, about how Archbishop Annibale Bugnini lied about the true origin of the some constituent elements of the Novus Ordo?

Second, the Society is not, as noted above, in schism, at least not as that phrase was defined by the First Vatican Council. The Society recognizes that the See of Peter is occupied at present by Pope John Paul II. Its priests pray for the Holy Father and for the local bishop in the Canon of the Mass. The Society can be said to be disobedient to the Holy Father’s unjust edicts and commands. The Society of Saint Pius X is not in schism.

Third, Bishop Fiorenza seems to be stating that ecumenism is a de fide dogma of the Catholic Church from which no Catholic may legitimately dissent. If this is his contention, it is he who is grave error. Ecumenism is a pastoral novelty that was specifically condemned by every Pope prior to 1958. Pope Pius XI did so with particular eloquence in Mortalium Animos in 1928. Novelties that are not consonant with the authentic Tradition of the Church bind no one under penalty of sin, no less binds a priest under penalty of canonical suspension. A rejection of ecumenism constitutes in no way a schismatic act.

Fourth, Bishop Fiorenza’s assertion that the “Old Testament covenant God established with the people of Israel” is enduringly valid is itself heretical. No human being can be saved by a belief in the Mosaic Covenant, which was superceded in its entirety when the curtain was torn in two in the Temple on Good Friday at the moment Our Lord had breathed His last on the Holy Cross. It is a fundamental act of fidelity to the truths of the Holy Faith to resist and to denounce the heretical contention, made in person by Bishop Fiorenza to Father Zigrang last year, that Jews are saved by the Mosaic Covenant. Were the Apostles, including the first pope, Saint Peter, wrong to try to convert the Jews? Was Our Lord joking when He said that a person had no life in him if he did not eat of His Body and drink of His Blood?

Fifth, Bishop Fiorenza has failed repeatedly to take into account Father Zigrang’s aboslute rights under Quo Primum to offer the Immemorial Mass of Tradition without any episcopal approval:

Furthermore, by these presents [this law], in virtue of Our Apostolic authority, We grant and concede in perpetuity that, for the chanting or reading of the Mass in any church whatsoever, this Missal is hereafter to be followed absolutely, without any scruple of conscience or fear of incurring any penalty, judgment, or censure, and may freely and lawfully be used. Nor are superiors, administrators, canons, chaplains, and other secular priests, or religious, of whatever order or by whatever title designated, obliged to celebrate the Mass otherwise than as enjoined by Us.

We likewise declare and ordain that no one whosoever is to be forced to alter this Missal, and that this present document cannot be revoked or modified, but remain always valid and retain its full force–notwithstanding the previous constitutions and decrees of the Holy See, as well as any general or special constitutions or edicts of provincial or synodal councils, and notwithstanding the practice and custom of the aforesaid churches, established by long and immemoial prescription–except, however, if of more than two hundred years’ standing. Therefore, no one whosoever is permitted to alter this letter or heedlessly to venture to go contrary to this notice of Our permission., statute, ordinance, command, precept, grant, indult, declaration, will, decree, and prohibition. Should anyone, however, presume to commit such an act, he should know that he will incur the wrath of Almighty God and of the Blessed Apostles Peter and Paul.

It is apparently the case that Bishop Fiorenza received a “green light,” if you will, to act against Father Zigrang from Dario Cardinal Castrillion Hoyos, who is both the Prefect of the Congregation for the Clergy and the President of Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei, to whom a copy of the July 2, 2004, suspension letter was sent. Father Zigrang surmises that Bishop Fiorenza brought up the issue of his case during the bishops’ ad limina apostolorum visit in Rome recently. Father believes that Cardinal Hoyos wants to send a signal to priests who might be tempted to follow his lead that Rome will let bishops crack down on them without mercy and without so much as an acknowledgment that Quo Primum actually means what it says. Whether or not the specific “schismatic” acts Father Zigrang is alleged to have committed by being associated with the Society of Saint Pius X at Queen of Angels Church in Dickinson, Texas, were outlined to Cardinal Hoyos by Bishop Fiorenza remains to be seen.

Naturally, the grounds on which Bishop Fiorenza suspended Father Zigrang are beyond the sublime. As my dear wife Sharon noted, “Doesn’t Bishop Fiorenza have a better canon lawyer on his staff than the one who advised him on the grounds of suspending Father Zigrang.” Indeed.

The very fact that Fiorenza could make these incredible claims and believes that he has a good chance of prevailing in Rome speaks volumes about the state of the Church in her human elements at present. Will Rome let the bishops govern unjustly and make erroneous assertions about “schism” as well as heretical claims (that a priest must accept that Jews are saved by the Mosaic Covenant and that ecumenism is a matter of de fide doctrine) with its full assent and approval? Will Rome countenance the same sort of misuse of power by local bishops upon traditional priests in the Twenty-first Century that was visited upon “Romans” by the civil state and the Anglican “church” in England from 1534 to 1729? The answers to these questions are probably self-evident. Putting them down in black and white, though, might help priests who are looking to Rome for some canonical protection for the Traditional Latin Mass to come to realize that they wait in vain for help from the Holy See, where the Vicar of Christ occupies himself at present with the writing of a book about existentialism!

There will be further updates on this matter as events warrant. Father Zigrang is weighing his options as to how to respond to the allegations contained in Bishop Fiorenza’s letter of suspension, understanding that the answers provided by the Holy See will have implications of obviously tremendous gravity. Given the intellectual dishonesty that exists in Rome at present, Father Zigrang’s case may only be decided on the technical grounds of “obedience” to his bishop, ignoring all of the other issues, including the rights of all priests under Quo Primum offer the Traditional Latin Mass without approval and their rights to never be forced to offer Holy Mass according to any other form.

To force Rome to act on what it might otherwise avoid, perhaps it might be wise for someone to bring a canonical denunciation of Bishop Fiorenza for his contentions about ecumenism and the “enduring validity” of the Mosaic Covenant, spelling out in chapter and verse how these things have been condemned in the history of the Church. Then again, Fiorenza could “defend” himself by simply pointing to the Pope himself, which is precisely why this matter has such grave implications. This matter is certain to be explored in great detail in the weeks and months ahead by competent canonists and by theologians who understand the authentic Tradition of the Catholic Church.

Father Zigrang noted the following in an e-mail to me dated July 14, 2004:

I examined canon 1371.2 (the canon that the Bishop says warrants my suspension), checking a good commentary, the disobedience of an Ordinary's legitimate precept may warrant a just penalty but not weighty enough to warrant a censure (e.g. suspension). I think this point may have been missed by the Bishop's hired canon lawyer, when the Bishop was weighing his options about what to do with one of his wayward priests. As I said to you before, the Bishop has a history of not suspending priests, even those who commit crimes beyond mere disobedience. Although lately I've been told he recently suspended a priest who attempted marriage with one of his parishioners. This was done about the time my suspension was in the works.

Our Lady, Queen of the Angels, pray for Father Zigrang.

Our Lady, Help of Christians, pray for all priests in Father Zigrang’s situation so that they will be aided by their seeking refuge in you in their time of persecution and trial.


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To: ninenot
Did Somerville join SSPX?

The SSPX is a particular fraternity of priests. Fr. Somerville is cooperating with their work.

Are you attempting to compare their actions with flat-out schism?

I'm saying that these men and Fr. Haley all showed enough courage to renounce all earthly rewards and to choose the Truth over promotion and success. They would rather serve God in poverty and humiliation and suffer slander and persecution rather than to say that black is white.

301 posted on 07/16/2004 2:25:56 PM PDT by Maximilian
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To: Maximilian
How many don't get photographed or don't get posted on the internet?

I don't know. Neither do you. Are you trying to imply that the answer is "billions and billions"? You're employing the same tactics as the Washington Post et al. employs to imply that President Bush is a liar or that guns should be banned. That's beneath you.

I've lived in the belly of the beast; I've witnessed first hand what the liturgical wreckers do. Have you? How often? For how long? Idolatry of buddha (or anything else) is not common or widespread. To imply that it is common and widespread is dishonest. Now you post a picture of a Liturgy in Poland (presumably), in someone's home, and imply that whatever they're doing is representative of something. Of what, I have no idea. Neither do you.

The real problems are bad enough. You're making yourself look like a crackpot. Again, you're better than that.

302 posted on 07/16/2004 2:27:21 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: AskStPhilomena

I will pray for Father Zigrang.

It is, indeed, intolerable when saintly priests are reprimanded, and openly homo priests are allowed to rule the roost.

God help the Church! He's the only one Who can.


303 posted on 07/16/2004 2:34:07 PM PDT by Palladin (Proud to be a FReeper!)
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To: Polycarp IV

Dear Plycarp,

Keep on fighting the good fight. Your efforts in Pennsylvania are much appreciated.

I hope someday we might meet, this side of Heaven.


304 posted on 07/16/2004 2:37:00 PM PDT by Palladin (Proud to be a FReeper!)
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To: narses

Sock it to 'em, narses!


305 posted on 07/16/2004 2:38:24 PM PDT by Palladin (Proud to be a FReeper!)
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To: GirlShortstop

Ah, sublime hilarity! A girl shortstop in a Pink Palace.


306 posted on 07/16/2004 2:40:17 PM PDT by Palladin (Proud to be a FReeper!)
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To: gbcdoj

"Superiors are to be obeyed in all things but absurdity!"


307 posted on 07/16/2004 2:41:05 PM PDT by Palladin (Proud to be a FReeper!)
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To: Maximilian

Max, you don't know the half of it. Down in Florida, there is a group of ex-priests who regularly concelebrate "Mass" with their wives. This goes on in several of the high-priced retirement communities. I've been invited many a time by old friends, but always conscientiously beg off.


308 posted on 07/16/2004 2:46:04 PM PDT by Palladin (Proud to be a FReeper!)
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To: saradippity

sara,

Props to you for always trying to be the peacemaker on these threads!


309 posted on 07/16/2004 2:47:12 PM PDT by Palladin (Proud to be a FReeper!)
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To: Maximilian

"As it turned out, Fr. Zigrang only said the Latin Mass once in his parish, because the bishop responded with such lightning speed. When a pederast is sodomizing young parishioners, bishops seem to require years or in some cases even decades to respond. But when a priest commits the unpardonable sin of offering the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, he is locked out of his rectory the very same day."


So true. Here in the Scranton Diocese, we are currently following the story of Father Al Liberatore, a molester of a teenage boy. He has recently been relieved of his teaching duties at Scranton U. His accuser came forward months ago, got no response from the diocese, so e pressed criminal charges.

Now it looks like Father Al is going to serve some hard time.

It's about time!


310 posted on 07/16/2004 2:50:25 PM PDT by Palladin (Proud to be a FReeper!)
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To: Palladin

Tuesday, May 18, UPDATED: 5:20 p.m.
By Megan Dardanell

Priest Faces Sex Charge

Fr. Al Liberatore

Another Catholic priest in our area is facing charges. Investigators said Tuesday the victim is a 17 year old who claims he was sexually molested at a local university. The suspect is a well-known priest who has served in Lackawanna and Luzerne Counties and taught at the University of Scranton. Now Father Al Liberatore is accused of indecent assault and corruption of a teenage boy.

The Diocese of Scranton has removed Father Liberatore from ministry, including his position at the University of Scranton. A spokes person for the diocese said he won't be able to serve in a Catholic church at least until the case is resolved. Meanwhile, authorities said the priest will likely face more charges.

Court papers said it happened on the University of Scranton campus at Saint Thomas Hall two years ago wen the young man was 17. Students are shocked. Joe Hartmann said he's disappointed. "(It's) something you try not to think about, but when it's thrown in your face, there's really not much (you) can do but deal with it. (You) hope for the best and hope it's a misunderstanding," said senior Hartman.

Nick Cromie took a class taught by Father Liberatore and can't believe the charges. "Very shocked. Never came on to anyone, anything like that. (He) had meetings with students, never did anything toward me or any of my friends," said sophomore Cromie.

Right now Father Liberatore is only charged with assault in Lackawanna County. But he was pastor at Sacred Heart, Saint Joseph Parish in Duryea for several years. The Luzerne County district attorney is investigating because authorities said that is where the teenager first met Father Liberatore in youth group.

"(The) matter being treated very seriously. Initial charges were filed in Lackawanna County but this is an ongoing investigation. Investigators were out this morning and today, doing leg work and doing more interviews," said Luzerne County District Attorney Dave Lupas.

Father Liberatore is free on bail.


311 posted on 07/16/2004 2:53:38 PM PDT by Palladin (Proud to be a FReeper!)
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To: Palladin
Down in Florida, there is a group of ex-priests who regularly concelebrate "Mass" with their wives.

What in the Name of all that's holy does that have to do with the Catholic Church??????

Answer: Absolutely nothing. It has no more relevance to this discussion than that bunch of invalidly ordained folks down the street from me who hold an invalid mass every Sunday in a rather barren looking church building labeled "Holy Trinity Episcopal Church".

312 posted on 07/16/2004 2:53:51 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: Hermann the Cherusker
Go to Catholic churches around the world and ask people if Vatican II and the New Mass are causing them to lose their faith and if they think the Church is in a dramatic crisis since 1962. Most will look at you like you have two heads.

Go around the country and ask people who the secretary of state is. Not only will "most will look at you like you have two heads", they won't have the slightest clue. Does this mean that Colin Powell doesn't exist?

First I would take issue with your premise that most people don't perceive a crisis in the church, but even if that were true the notion that because daft people don't perceive something therefor it doesn't exist is total nonsense.

A GIGO'd flock doesn't ameliorate the millions of dollars in court costs, lost donations, the homosexual infestation, the dismal church attendance, wayward bishops, the heresy, the lost youth etc.

You're "I don't think therefor I am not" concept is illogical. Because 12 jurors didn't think OJ killed his wife doesn't mean it didn't happen, it just means they were morons.

313 posted on 07/16/2004 2:55:01 PM PDT by AAABEST (Lord have mercy on us)
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To: Palladin

Update on Liberatore:

Thursday, July 15, UPDATED: 4:45 p.m.

By Scott Schaffer

Priest Faces New Charges

There are new, serious allegations against a Roman Catholic priest already in trouble with the law. The new charges took him across state lines Thursday.

Father Al Liberatore was a parish priest in Luzerne County and a teacher at the University of Scranton. Now he's an alleged child molester and authorities said his crimes were committed in two counties and two states.

Fr. Liberatore left the Luzerne County courthouse in handcuffs Thursday, headed to New York City. "The defendant has waived extradition and he will be transported to New York where he will face further proceedings," said Luzerne County District Attorney Dave Lupas.

Liberatore, already charged with corruption of minors in Lackawanna County, now faces similar counts in Luzerne County, as well as New York. Authorities said their investigation turned up a years-long relationship with a boy who the priest mentored in the youth group at Sacred Heart of Jesus parish in Duryea. Court papers said the relationship began when the boy was 13, and continued through his high school years.

Investigators said Liberatore took the boy to fancy restaurants in and around Scranton and Wilkes-Barre, supplied him with alcohol and had him sleep over at the rectory; sleep-overs which authorities said became sexual.

Court papers also said the priest took the boy to gay bars and sleep-overs in Manhattan. "The allegations stemming from an on-going investigation in New York are of a more serious nature than the types of allegations we have here," said Lupas.

Father Liberatore is relieved of his ministry by the Diocese of Scranton. He's free on bail in Pennsylvania, but at last word, he was considered in the custody of authorities in New York.


314 posted on 07/16/2004 2:59:52 PM PDT by Palladin (Proud to be a FReeper!)
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To: ArrogantBustard

Bustard,

They are all prominent and active in their respective Catholic parishes; some are Eucharistic ministers and lectors on Sunday; others are hospital chaplains!!!

This is what is going on in the Church. Your Church.

Keep your blinders on, if it makes you more comfortable.


315 posted on 07/16/2004 3:02:47 PM PDT by Palladin (Proud to be a FReeper!)
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To: Palladin; broadsword

Pinga-linga!

Here we go again!


316 posted on 07/16/2004 3:06:50 PM PDT by Palladin (Proud to be a FReeper!)
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To: Maximilian
But offering the Latin Mass can never be categorized as a "wrong."

He wasn't suspended for that, as far as the article implies. He took a stand that he will not offer a Novus Ordo mass again, and the Bishop will not tolerate that.

As a matter of fact, it is a "right," one which was guaranteed to all Catholics for all futurity of time.

That wasn't in dispute, like I said, the problem is that he refused to obey.
317 posted on 07/16/2004 3:36:03 PM PDT by Dominick ("Freedom consists not in doing what we like, but in having the right to do what we ought." - JP II)
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To: Piers-the-Ploughman
SSPX priests do serve people; they do not flee from battle with the world. Your analogy is unfair that way.

You let the modernists, the real modernists, chase you out of the Churches. You let a few in your ranks speak of John-Paul as apostate, and let others in the ranks say the Novus Ordo is not a Mass at all. All this plans into the hands of these people to marginalize Traditionalism.

JP II has asked for a wide and generous application of TLM; SSPX is providing it as best they can.

SSPX Priests are incapable of providing LICIT Masses. They have no Incardination, and hence are irregular at best.

Surely one is allowed to distinguish between a priest who is 98% faithful and one is 50% faithful to Catholic teachings

We should always oppose errors wherever we find it. I sat in my Baptism class, and argued with a Parish Priest about Limbo and Purgatory. We went around and I took the heat. I didn't walk out glaring and ran off to the SSPX Chapel.

If you are here, you have the tools to oppose modernists in the Catholic Parishes. I firmly believe 5% of the people do 90% of the work, and the people here are part of the 5%. You can't do anything from the outside, while in the SSPX. If you read anything I posted here, it is clear I don't think the Latin Mass is wrong. I think claiming the Novus Ordo has fatal defects or is deficient is saying that it is not valid. I think those who left the Church for SSPX have no role in Catholic Parishes because the CHurch has valid documents from the See putting people attached to the organization out. I urge them to return and fight the good fight with the rest of us in the Church.
318 posted on 07/16/2004 3:48:36 PM PDT by Dominick ("Freedom consists not in doing what we like, but in having the right to do what we ought." - JP II)
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