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To: ponyespresso

Strangely enough, I was just like where you stand now around 10 years ago (as a high school student). At that time I believed the Bible's calls to care for the poor and needy nessiticated a cradle-to-grave welfare state system. That idea was rooted in the days when I was still in Hong Kong where pursuit of economic gains makes the US look like Denmark.

Then I came to New Zealand. I witnessed how the best intention of welfare state provisions make a mockery of individual efforts. Rather than providing a big helping hand to the needy, it has instead become a big brother of the needy. Just like Roger Douglas (the former Labour Finance Minister 1984-1988 - whose reforms were called Rogernomics), I'm one of a numerous number of former socialists. (Roger Douglas was a fully-blown socialist, a card-carrying member of Socialist International) Interestingly most neoliberal policies supporters (in NZ a neoliberal means someone akin to a free market conservative in the US) were used to be hard-core socialists - apart from Roger Douglas, Richard Prebble, Rodney Hide, Ken Shirley, and Don Brash are the other well-known ones. I now understand that true compassion from the satte requires a tough love approach, something that doesn't make my stand popular in Asian Christians circles.

An exerpt of Roger Douglas' speech about welfare reforms is here:

http://www.rogerdouglas.org.nz/conf04a.htm


18 posted on 07/15/2004 3:31:32 PM PDT by NZerFromHK
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To: NZerFromHK; lockeliberty
Strangely enough, I was just like where you stand now around 10 years ago (as a high school student). At that time I believed the Bible's calls to care for the poor and needy nessiticated a cradle-to-grave welfare state system.

Actually, as a Christian, my thoughts about the care for the poor and needy have never really included a cradle-to-grave welfare state. I'm sorry if I gave that impression. I've always understood that care should come from the Church, not the state.

What bothers me is the idea of "tough-love" approach from the state (which I agree with) being used to justify the inaction of The Church (which I don't agree with). Believe me, as an expat living in England, I see daily the downside to modern socialism from a political standpoint. However, this cannot be used as blanket reasoning for the abondonment of the poor and needy by the Church.

Honestly, how much of capitalism's overriding priority to accumulate wealth would Jesus have honestly condoned? Which doesn't automatically mean that Jesus would have immedately embraced communism or socailsism either! Doesn't Scripture say if a man not work, then let him not eat? Nowhere in the Bible is laziness and sloth encouraged, however nowhere is financial profit and the accumulation of wealth held up as man's highest goal.

Unfortunalty, what happens is that whenever a Christian calls out for action for the poor, or for social justice, or expresses concern for *gasp* the environment, suddenly they get labled this flaming liberal who is obviously deceived by Satan needs to be delivered from the evil spirits of communism/socialism/whateverism. I am extremely concerned about many conservative Christian's religious views being conformed by their political views, rather than the other way around.

Anyway, those are my thoughts, fire at will

pony

20 posted on 07/16/2004 5:13:39 AM PDT by ponyespresso (simul justus et peccator)
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