JESUS SAID no man comes to the Father except THE SPIRIT draw the person.
Clearly The Spirit is involved before, at, during Salvation. Nothing else makes sense and nothing else is consistent with the Whole Counsel of God, imho.
I was reared in the Assembly of God. They are a precious denomination in a lot of ways. In a lot of ways, too many of them have been IN THE WAY for toooooo long and need to GET OUT OF THE WAY AND GET IN JESUS WHOLE HEARTEDLY, HOOK, LINE AND SINKER ANEW EVERY DAY . . . as we all do.
Denominational distinctives--even a "fullness of The Spirit" distinctive that flows into pride has missed the boat--is already askew.
I'm keenly thankfull and appreciative of Charismania in terms of Holy Spirit drawing me, aiding me, facilitating me, moving me deeper into Christ. I'd have been much more muted in my effectiveness in China without Holy Spirit flowing through me to the hurting etc.
But intellectual high horses about The Spirit to the unnecessary and ego driven bruising of precious souls and hearts, have already left a close walk with and in The Spirit, imho.
I may be overmuch like you. I don't know. But I TAKE THE SCRIPTURES ABOUT GOING TO A BROTHER VERY SERIOUSLY
--if the brother has something against me,
--if I have something against the brother,
--if I'm concerned the brother may be missing something significant in their walk with The Lord
etc.
And I try to do it rapidly to avoid giving satan an opportunity to drip resentment, haughtiness, whatever into my heart and between the brother and I.
Sadly, toooooo few Christians and especially Christian leaders seem to have those verses in their Bibles if their behavior or even tolerance for such are any clue.
I believe God will be calling all of us to establish, deepen and maintain much closer and clearer relationships on such scores between now and Christ taking us home. And those who refuse, may find their tickets canceled.
imho.
Exactly. That was my whole rap, but they don't see it this way. Or, again, I think it's about confusing terms.
They are saying that you don't always get the Holy Spirit when you become a Christian, but what the mean is that you don't always get baptised by the Holy Spirit when you become a Christian. They don't clearly define their terms at all.
However, at my meeting, I asked point blank if they are actually teaching that someone can be a Christian and not have the Holy Spirit, but they dodged the question. Which is a worry, to be honest.
pony