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I think I know some FReepers who may have read these!
1 posted on 04/08/2004 1:40:07 PM PDT by netmilsmom
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2 posted on 04/08/2004 1:49:24 PM PDT by Support Free Republic (Hi Mom! Hi Dad!)
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To: netmilsmom
I'm glad that Catholics are presenting the facts of what's going on. I think some of my fellow Protestants may be a bit on the ignorant side when it comes to some Catholic traditions. And you're right, they need to read this. But I also think that we all should take the time to understand each other's point of view. That's what FR is all about.
3 posted on 04/08/2004 2:12:27 PM PDT by WinOne4TheGipper (By it's very definition, atheism does not need evangelism.)
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To: netmilsmom
As an evangelical christian I have to disagree with how the catholic are being displayed in this article. I do not at all agree with this one evangelical church.

I do not agree with the catholic doctrine or the whys or why nots. But I do agree that most catholic have a genuine desire to want to know the Lord. Something the catholic church is found wanting. See how that the catholic church is falling apart over gay priest, gay marriages, and other internal conflicts.

These problems exist because of the false doctrine that is so much apart of the catholic church. And many catholic are begining to see the light, despite the clergy.

No doubt the clergy who wrote this is looking for symathy and striking out in revenge. Trying to sterotype evangelical churches has half baked. Nice try.
7 posted on 04/08/2004 2:26:41 PM PDT by Warlord David
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To: netmilsmom
This reflects one of those good news/bad news situations:

the good news is that the internet is a great way to bypass the 'mainstream' media's censorship because anyone can self-publish on the web..

the bad news is that *anyone* can self-publish on the web.

While many of the mainline denominations (Roman Catholic, Anglican, Lutheran, Methodist, Presbyterian, etc.) are dealing with issues related to previous infiltration by those espousing 'liberation theology', homosexual 'rights', and a wide variety of other 'post-modern' nonsense, the Evangelicals and Pentecostals have their own problems.

The majority of the latter would appear to result from two primary issues:

1. Some (and that's an important qualifier) portions of both the Evangelical and Pentecostal movements do *not* place much emphasis on ministerial training; thus resulting in men and women in leadership positions who have only the basics of their own theology, and no basis for accurate comparison with theological basis of other denominations. This is especially true on the fringes of both groups (which is where a lot of the 'pope is the antichrist' sorts of nonsense come from).

2. Most Evangelical and Pentecostal groups tend to concentrate their authority at the level of the local congregation. There are some exceptions - for instance The Assemblies of God, a Pentecostal denomination, although made up primarily of 'sovereign congregations' expends a great deal of time and effort policing their own folks to keep them from wandering too far off into theological la-la land.

However, all of us - Mainline folks, Evangelicals, and Pentecostals too, have our share of 'tinfoil hat' types.

It's been my observation that (possibly due to the two above factors) the *fringes* of the Evangelicals and Pentecostals seem to attract more than their fair share of 'tinfoil hats', many of whom may have fled other denominations due to lack of acceptance of their views...and then we're right back to the good news/bad news about self-publishing on the web.

just my 2 cents' worth on that one,
11 posted on 04/08/2004 2:57:37 PM PDT by ahadams2 (Anglican Freeper Resource Page: http://eala.freeservers.com/anglican/)
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To: netmilsmom
The phrase I really hate is "recovering Catholic".

If you're Catholic, you're Catholic for life. You may fall away or turn your back on it, but that doesn't change that you're still Catholic.

The big problem is still that people don't know the faith because no one taught us what it is. And it's up to us to raise the roof with that little tidbit.
16 posted on 04/08/2004 3:13:48 PM PDT by Desdemona (Proverbs 18:2 A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion.)
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To: netmilsmom
When I was in high school, someone handed me a copy of Dave Hunt's A Woman Rides the Beast. I read it, saw that it was heavily footnoted, and assumed it was accurate.

That experience was illuminating for me: the guy who handed me that book was not exactly theologically sophisticated, but if I hadn't been exposed to Catholic teachings in college, I probably would never have abandoned the "Rome=Babylon" position, and would probably still be teaching that to others.

I wonder how many young kids like me are out there.

Now, I still have grave reservations about Catholic theology. My theological perspective is Reformed. However, I've read the writings of Augustine, Ireneaus, and Aquinas, and found Augustine particularly compelling. (I consider his Confessions to be one of the three most influential books I ever read in my life, after Desiring God by John Piper and Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis.) But I understand it better now, and won't dismiss Rome as Antichrist.

28 posted on 04/08/2004 8:31:44 PM PDT by jude24 (Explore the meaning behind THE PASSION OF THE CHRIST -- www.thelife.com)
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To: netmilsmom
Satan: "Let us divide and conquer!"
55 posted on 04/09/2004 1:16:22 PM PDT by hardhead (WARNING: muslims are inside the Trojan horse!)
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To: netmilsmom
netmilsmom,

Hope you don't mind my posting it in full -- didn't see OSV listed as publication that needed to be excerpted....

FReegards,

- ConservativeStLouisGuy

____________________

Online Anti-Catholicism Rears Its Ugly Head: Web Surfers Seeking Catholic Church Info Are Often Targeted By Fundamentalist Sites

Rosalie and Michael (not their real names) are a Catholic husband and wife from the Northeast who run an upscale hair salon in the South; they have long been what might be called "perpetual parish shoppers," ever looking for a church community that perfectly fits their spirituality.

Not long after Rosalie began attending an evangelical Christian mega-church whose spirituality emphasizes Biblical fundamentalism, church members directed her to a plethora of Internet sites aimed at revealing to Catholics the "truth" about the Catholic Church.

One example of the sort of misinformation present on such sites: The back of the pope’s chair in St. Peter’s Basilica in Rome is inscribed with an upside-down cross — proof that the pope is allied with Satan, right?

Perhaps a poorly catechized Catholic like Rosalie would fall for that explanation, but others will remember that St. Peter asked to be crucified upside-down because he did not feel worthy to die in the same way his Lord did.

The upside-down cross, then, is a symbol of the humility of the "servant of the servants of God" and a reminder that he is to lay down his life for his flock.

Sadly, Rosalie now talks about the "Vatican’s link to paganism," the "real" purpose of the Crusades and how to avoid the "mark of the beast" (don’t let the government implant a bar-coded national-identity device under your skin).

How can some Catholics be so gullible?

"There is something that can’t be explained, some basic human thing, that if it is printed then it seems to be true," said Brother John Raymond, co-founder of the Venice, Fla.-based Monks of Adoration and author of "Catholics on the Internet" (out of print), a guide to some 10,000 Catholic-related websites, many of which he recommends.

But as the Internet becomes the most powerful — and sometimes the only — source of research, especially for the under 40 population, a number of anti-Catholic websites are playing on the naiveté and curiosity of marginal, disillusioned or confused Catholics, according to experts.

Old story, new venue

"The Internet is just full of this material," said Carl Olson, editor of Envoy magazine and a former fundamentalist Christian who grew up reading the kinds of claims that now inform the anti-Catholic websites.

"There are a number of specific fundamentalist groups whose primary focus is trying to convince Catholics that their church is not Christian, that it is pagan, the whore of Babylon," Olson told Our Sunday Visitor.

Many of the websites have telling addresses, such as freedomfromcatholicism.com; others are more deceptive, such as justforcatholics.org and catholicconcerns.com.

The content tends to reflect the already-familiar anti-Catholic thinking of a pack of writers well known to Catholic apologists: James McCarthy, Jack Chick, Lorraine Boettner, Dave Hunt.

"We certainly are aware of the sites out there, because Catholics troubled by them send us links to those sites or we find them used against us by non-Catholics who want to ‘save’ us," said Jan Wakelin, of Catholic Answers, a San Diego-based publication.

"Sometimes they throw out so much material, and hundreds of charges — all of which could be responded to, but it would take forever to do it," she said.

Engaging those who run the anti-Catholic websites might be quixotic, according to those who have trod that ground. Civil engineer Mel Damewood, a cradle Catholic and native of Eugene, Ore., first spotted anti-Catholic websites back in the mid-1990s.

After identifying numerous falsehoods in the content, he e-mailed some of the sites, presenting Catholic positions, but "they would go off on another tangent," Damewood said. "They tend to go after Catholic teaching on the Eucharist, on the Virgin Mary and the whole structure of the Vatican."

Alarmingly effective

Envoy’s Olson said his experience with people who run the anti-Catholic websites is that once they discover you are someone who really knows the faith and can beat them at their own game, they will cease talking.

"They either bail out or change the topic and bury you with other information. That is really one of the problems and challenges of the Internet — without seeing people face to face and seeing their humanity, it is easy to hurt people and throw these flaming darts," Olson said.

Fundamentalists trying to target Catholics have seen the Internet as a great opportunity to put forward their beliefs, he added, and it has been alarmingly effective with people who don’t know their faith.

"They get on the Internet, they are alienated from their parish or may be poorly catechized, and they see this or that group is passionate about Jesus, and they get caught up in the emotional aspect of it, about sharing their love for Jesus," Olson said.

Emilio Chavez, assistant professor of sacred scripture at St. Vincent de Paul Regional Seminary in Boynton Beach, Fla., who is active in interfaith relations, recalls a 1993 document from the U.S. bishops that calls biblical fundamentalism a form of intellectual suicide. Chavez sees some common characteristics among anti-Catholic church groups and what it is that would attract people to them.

"They tend to be intimate societies where everyone is equal and participating with a central, charismatic leader, with an emotional approach to the scripture, and where a direct link to God is emphasized," Chavez said. "There is also an emphasis on predictions and interpreting the secrets of the world."

Chavez thinks having good Bible studies at the parish level is one way of minimizing the impact of misinformation.

"We have to promote biblical study and devotion in a Catholic way, to put the Bible in the forefront of Catholic life so people do not have to turn to the sects which are putting the Bible at the forefront in a way that is dangerous and that is not Catholic," he said.

Fighting fire with truth

Here is a list of recommended resources for solid Catholic apologetics:

Books:

- "The Catholic Answer Bible" (OSV, $21.95)
- "Where is that in the Bible?" by Patrick Madrid (OSV, $10.95)
- Why Is that in Tradition?" by Patrick Madrid (OSV, $10.95)
- "Answer Me This" by Patrick Madrid (OSV, $11.95)
- "The Catholic Response" by Father Peter Stravinskas (OSV, $11.95)

Internet sites:

Several Catholic mega-sites provide links to solid, Catholic resources online:

www.catholicity.com

www.catholicexchange.com

www.catholic.org
69 posted on 04/12/2004 11:57:37 AM PDT by ConservativeStLouisGuy (transplanted St Louisan living in Canada, eh!)
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To: netmilsmom
I freely admit to disliking Catholic doctrine.
70 posted on 04/12/2004 12:02:02 PM PDT by biblewonk (The only book worth reading, and reading, and reading.)
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To: netmilsmom
"They either bail out or change the topic and bury you with other information. That is really one of the problems and challenges of the Internet — without seeing people face to face and seeing their humanity, it is easy to hurt people and throw these flaming darts,"

Heh heh ... a common tactic here on FR.

105 posted on 04/13/2004 7:00:15 AM PDT by al_c
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