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[ Did Christ come for all men, or just for a few? Since we can only be certain that there are souls in heaven (canonized saints), Christian Hope would prompt us to be silent on the fate of anybody else.

To acknowledge the existence of hell is not the same thing as saying we are certain that there are souls present there. ]

To clarify some points, the "dare we hopers" do not argue that Hell is empty; they acknowledge that Satan and his angels will be there for all eternity. Their argument is that Hell could, hypothetically, be empty of *human* souls and they say that we are permitted to hope that this is the case.

"sinkspur" is correct that Christ died for all men and that all men have the potential to be saved and are given sufficient grace by God to be saved.

"sinkspur" is also correct that we have certainty that certain individuals (canonized saints) are in heaven. And it is true that we cannot have certainty that *any given individual* is in Hell.

However, contrary to the "dare we hopers", we can indeed have *certainty* that Hell is not empty of human souls. Scripture contains many passages that teach this directly (I cited some in my article) and these passages have consistently been interpreted by the Fathers and Doctors of the Church as depicting actual reality and not just potentialities (as the "dare we hopers" would argue). To interpret Scripture contrary to this unanimous consent of the Fathers falls under the anathemas of Trent and Vatican I.

We may also add magisterial witnesses too numerous to catalogue which bolster this certainty that there are human souls in Hell, although again we cannot know specifically who is so affected. I cited the very smallest sampling in my article.

Finally, we can add on top of all of this the private, but approved, revelations to various saints throughout Church history that testify to this reality.

Thus, the reality of souls in Hell is taught infallibly by the Catholic Church, by virtue of her ordinary univeral magisterium. This give us certainty, apart from the need of any ex cathedra pronouncement to this effect.

Hope is a theological virtue. We may not, therefore, hope for something that is manifestly contrary to Divine revelation. Ergo, the "dare we hopers" are wrong. The best one could say is that "hope" is here synonymous with "wish", that we might "wish" that no one goes to Hell. This might be theologically permitted, but I continue to question whether the Catholic Tradition really justifies such speculation and I'm adamant that in our present historical context it is manifestly harmful.

God bless,

David

Thus, the reality of souls in Hell is taught infallibly by the Catholic Church, by virtue of her ordinary univeral magisterium.

Well, John Paul II and many others disagree with you:

The silence of the Church [on the subject of universal salvation] is, therefore, the only appropriate position for Christian faith. Even when Jesus says of Judas, the traitor, "it would be better for that man if he had never been born" (Mt 26:24), his words do not allude for certain to eternal damnation.

This is from John Paul II's "Crossing the Threshold of Hope."

The best one could say is that "hope" is here synonymous with "wish", that we might "wish" that no one goes to Hell. This might be theologically permitted, but I continue to question whether the Catholic Tradition really justifies such speculation and I'm adamant that in our present historical context it is manifestly harmful.

Harmful? That we pray there are no souls in hell? Doen't the Church pray that all men be saved? If we're sure that some men are certainly going to perish, then shouldn't we pray for the salvation of "some" souls, rather than "every" soul?

I'm sure you're one of those who also believes that unbaptized infants with absolute dogmatic certainty will never see God.

How do you have such certainty? Because Gregory of Nazianzen says so?