Replies

Thus, the reality of souls in Hell is taught infallibly by the Catholic Church, by virtue of her ordinary univeral magisterium.

Well, John Paul II and many others disagree with you:

The silence of the Church [on the subject of universal salvation] is, therefore, the only appropriate position for Christian faith. Even when Jesus says of Judas, the traitor, "it would be better for that man if he had never been born" (Mt 26:24), his words do not allude for certain to eternal damnation.

This is from John Paul II's "Crossing the Threshold of Hope."

The best one could say is that "hope" is here synonymous with "wish", that we might "wish" that no one goes to Hell. This might be theologically permitted, but I continue to question whether the Catholic Tradition really justifies such speculation and I'm adamant that in our present historical context it is manifestly harmful.

Harmful? That we pray there are no souls in hell? Doen't the Church pray that all men be saved? If we're sure that some men are certainly going to perish, then shouldn't we pray for the salvation of "some" souls, rather than "every" soul?

I'm sure you're one of those who also believes that unbaptized infants with absolute dogmatic certainty will never see God.

How do you have such certainty? Because Gregory of Nazianzen says so?

[ Well, John Paul II and many others disagree with you ]

Indeed. But it is my contention that, should some one of these "many" attempt to harmonize this modern speculation with the unanimous views of the Fathers, Doctors, Popes and Councils that have preceded him, he would be unable to do so. At least Hans urs Von Balthasar was unable to do so in his book "Dare We Hope...."

[ Harmful? That we pray there are no souls in hell? Doen't the Church pray that all men be saved? If we're sure that some men are certainly going to perish, then shouldn't we pray for the salvation of "some" souls, rather than "every" soul? ]

The Church does not pray that there are no souls in hell. She prays for the salvation of every individual soul, since each man has the potential to be saved and God desires none to perish. This does not overturn the fact that some will not be saved, as Scripture and Tradition attest.

I outlined a number of harmful practical results of creeping universalism in my article. There are others, but those are sufficient to make this line of speculation imprudent, to say the least.

[ I'm sure you're one of those who also believes that unbaptized infants with absolute dogmatic certainty will never see God. How do you have such certainty? Because Gregory of Nazianzen says so? ]

"I'm sure you're one of those.....How do you have such certainty?" Hmmmm. From whence do you get this certainty about my views?

Another question in return is how you can assert that there is uncertainty with regard to human souls in Hell in the face of the unanimous and repeated witness of 1900 years of Fathers, Doctors, Popes and Councils. Can you cite even one magisterial or traditional source prior to, say, 1960 that supports the modern speculation? I'm not saying one doesn't exist, but I have yet to see it. If not, on what Catholic principle is a question or "hope" inserted where the unanimous Catholic Tradition finds no place for one?

For a while there, Sink, I thought you had an honest profession in hardware or software sales/marketing, whatever.

It's beginning to look like you are really a Philadelphia lawyer, transplanted to Dallas.

Your wheezing citation of ONE graph from JPII's book, containing ONE cite of Scripture which is VERY specific, has little to do with the discussion at hand.

I've seen better proof-texting from sophomore Prots on this board.

As to the 'babies' thing--your re-shaping of the argument (again, tiresome and rather off-the-point) is not germane.
You're a big boy, go look up the precise teaching and THEN admit that either you're a material heretic OR that you agree with it.