The Little Number of Those Who Are Saved

Our Lady of the Rosary Library ^ | St. Leonard of Port Maurice

[johnb2004]

Now let us consult the Latin Fathers. You will hear Saint Gregory saying clearly, "Many attain to faith, but few to the heavenly kingdom." Saint Anselm declares, "There are few who are saved." Saint Augustine states even more clearly, "Therefore, few are saved in comparison to those who are damned." The most terrifying, however, is Saint Jerome. At the end of his life, in the presence of his disciples, he spoke these dreadful words: "Out of one hundred thousand people whose lives have always been bad, you will find barely one who is worthy of indulgence." The Words of Holy Scripture But why seek out the opinions of the Fathers and theologians, when Holy Scripture settles the question so clearly? Look in to the Old and New Testaments, and you will find a multitude of figures, symbols and words that clearly point out this truth: very few are saved. In the time of Noah, the entire human race was submerged by the Deluge, and only eight people were saved in the Ark. Saint Peter says, "This ark was the figure of the Church," while Saint Augustine adds, "And these eight people who were saved signify that very few Christians are saved, because there are very few who sincerely renounce the world, and those who renounce it only in words do not belong to the mystery represented by that ark." The Bible also tells us that only two Hebrews out of two million entered the Promised Land after going out of Egypt, and that only four escaped the fire of Sodom and the other burning cities that perished with it. All of this means that the number of the damned who will be cast into fire like straw is far greater than that of the saved, whom the heavenly Father will one day gather into His barns like precious wheat. I would not finish if I had to point out all the figures by which Holy Scripture confirms this truth; let us content ourselves with listening to the living oracle of Incarnate Wisdom. What did Our Lord answer the curious man in the Gospel who asked Him, "Lord, is it only a few to be saved?" Did He keep silence? Did He answer haltingly? Did He conceal His thought for fear of frightening the crowd? No. Questioned by only one, He addresses all of those present. He says to them: "You ask Me if there are only few who are saved?" Here is My answer: "Strive to enter by the narrow gate; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able." Who is speaking here? It is the Son of God, Eternal Truth, who on another occasion says even more clearly, "Many are called, but few are chosen." He does not say that all are called and that out of all men, few are chosen, but that many are called; which means, as Saint Gregory explains, that out of all men, many are called to the True Faith, but out of them few are saved. Brothers, these are the words of Our Lord Jesus Christ. Are they clear? They are true. Tell me now if it is possible for you to have faith in your heart and not tremble.

[sinkspur]

Few souls have a real hope of Heaven; as cruel as that sounds, it's the truth.

It's not the truth.

Man, since when did Catholics turn into Calvinists?

[sinkspur]

He dies for those who were worthy of His death, no more. And that's not many.

That's nobody.

Yet we are all bound to conduct ourselves by the law, as though we did have a possibility of salvation.

More Calvinism.

[Loyalist]

Calvinists also believe that if you're saved, you can't lose your salvation. How arrogant is that?

To believe that few will be saved is not to believe in the Calvinist heresy; it is simply to recognize that while salvation is theoretically open to all, only those who are worthy will be saved.

[sinkspur]

So, the Good Shepherd, who leaves ninety-nine to go after the one, wasted His time, I guess.

Why did He even bother enduring death, for a handful?

[Loyalist]

So, the Good Shepherd, who leaves ninety-nine to go after the one, wasted His time, I guess.

Free will. He left ninety-nine who chose through free will to reject Him, to go the after the one who through free will and perfect contrition did not.

Why did He even bother enduring death, for a handful?

If only a handful worked out their own salvation, if only a handful benefited perfectly from sacramental grace, if only a handful had perfect contrition for their sins, far better than if none.

[sinkspur]

if only a handful had perfect contrition for their sins, far better than if none.

The Church does not teach that perfect contrition is necessary for the forgiveness of sins.

Imperfect contrition for venial sins, and imperfect contrition with sacramental confession, is sufficient for forgiveness.

Well, I prefer hope to pessimism.

[dangus]

Funny. You didn't answer my question.

Let me remove any distracting words for you:
Is it OK to commit murder?

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Funny. You didn't answer my question.

Your question.

So, Big Mack, you think it is OK to commit mortal sin?

Your question is assuming I accept your concept of Degrees of Sin, I don't. Its not found in the Bible. Sin is sin. If I steal a paper clip or murder someone in the eyes of God they are both equal and wrong.

BigMack

[dangus]

I reworded the question to make it nice and easy and clear.

Do you think it is OK to commit murder?

[Quester]

So, the Good Shepherd, who leaves ninety-nine to go after the one, wasted His time, I guess.

Free will. He left ninety-nine who chose through free will to reject Him, to go the after the one who through free will and perfect contrition did not.

I think you've got this parable wrong.

The ninety and nine did not reject Christ.

When the Good Shepherd had found the one which was lost, ... He returned it to be with the other ninety and nine.

[SoliDeoGloria]

I'm not convinced that 95% of baptized Catholics are walking around in mortal sin, however.

Nor am I. It's more like 99%. Few souls have a real hope of Heaven; as cruel as that sounds, it's the truth.

Wow! Does the Roman Catholic Church have anything to do with saving it's people? If so, should the 99% failure rate reflect on it?

[SoliDeoGloria]

Few souls have a real hope of Heaven; as cruel as that sounds, it's the truth. - Loyalist

Man, since when did Catholics turn into Calvinists? - sinkspur

You just had to slander Calvinism, didn't ya...



GRPL: SWARM SWARM SWARM!!!

Kidding aside, we Calvinists believe that God has an "Amazing Grace"... And since it is He who saves Us, we believe He'll have exactly the right percentage of us in Heaven.

[irishtenor]

100% of all who are called.

[SoliDeoGloria]

Calvinists also believe that if you're saved, you can't lose your salvation. How arrogant is that?

To believe that few will be saved is not to believe in the Calvinist heresy; it is simply to recognize that while salvation is theoretically open to all, only those who are worthy will be saved. - Loyalist

Wow. I mean, Wow! You state Calvinism is arrogant, and then proceed to say that Christ died for "only those who are worthy."

I assume you missed the part where Christ says he didn't come for the healthy / righteous. Here it is:

Mark 2:17
And hearing this, Jesus said to them, "[Matt 9:12, 13; Luke 5:31, 32] It is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but those who are sick; I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."

While we're at it, let's throw in some Romans for good measure:

Romans 5:6-8
6 For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For one will hardly die for a righteous man; though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die. 8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Oh, and, by the way, you should also take Christ's word for never loosing your Salvation:

John 10:27-29
27 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29 "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

Just to summarize: We don't keep our salvation, God keeps it for us. And since God doesn't fail, neither will our salvation.

[drstevej]

88Calvinists also believe that if you're saved, you can't lose your salvation. How arrogant is that?***

Depends on why they believe you can't lose it. If they believed it is because of their merit then it is arrogant. But they don't so it isn't. If they believe that salvation is based on Christ's merits, which they do. It is a very humble doctrine.

[irishtenor]

GOOD RESPONSE.

[Jerry_M]

I am constantly reminded that I am a filthy, rotten sinner, and deserving of hell and eternal damnation.

Yet, I have the assurance that I will be fully and completely delivered from this body of sin by the Grace of God. Not because of anything I have ever done, or will ever do, but solely because of the work of Christ on my behalf.

Salvation is of the LORD.

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

Few souls have a real hope of Heaven; as cruel as that sounds, it's the truth. - Loyalist

Man, since when did Catholics turn into Calvinists? - sinkspur

Actually, if we're comparing ratios and percentages, it bears mentioning that Calvinists have generally taught that God has Elected the Salvation of all those infants whom He has permitted to die in the womb or infancy. This is not a dogma which is universally taught by every single Calvinist, but it is a dogma which has been generally taught by the majority of great Calvinists throughout history from John Calvin himself on down through the ages.

By contrast, the Roman Catholic church expressly denies the salvation of unbaptized infants who die in the womb or in infancy. From my thread "Baptism does not Regenerate" (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1076118/posts)

In his above-mentioned nihil obstat book, bearing the imprimatur of Edm. Can. Surmont (then Roman Catholic Vicar-General), Murphy further explained why all humans -- whether fetuses or octogenarians -- must be baptized before they die. "We must conclude," he declared, "that infants dying in their mother's womb do not enjoy the Beatific Vision in Heaven." Thus say the lords of the Roman Catholic Church.

But the Lord of all Lords insists upon the very opposite. For the Word of God assures us that infants of believing parents are sanctified even from their conception, long before they could ever be baptized -- First Corinthians 7:14. Compare also: Genesis 17:5-12; Luke 1:5-7,39-45; II Timothy 1:3-5 & 3:14-15.

When one considers the high rates of infant mortality throughout most of history, not to mention the hundreds of millions (or more) throughout the ages who have been killed by Abortion, it becomes clear that the majority of Calvinist theologians throughout history have foreseen a heavenly New Jerusalem whose population numbers perhaps in the billions. Many (perhaps even the majority) having died only a few months or years after Conception and having experienced little time on this Earth prior to being made Citizens of Heaven, yes; but who can presume to deny God's prerogative to save as many hundreds of millions, at whatever age, as He sees fit?

Oh yeah -- the Roman Catholic Church does so presume. For by her own imprimatur, Roman Catholicism declares that all those hundreds of millions or even billions of unbaptized infants are even now sweltering in the agonies of Hell.

And if a Romanist wants to flinch from this express teaching of his own Church, then he must answer me this: If it is not True that hundreds of millions or even billions of unbaptized infants are even now sweltering in the agonies of Hell, then why did the Roman Catholic church pronounce such dogma to be nihil obstat -- without error?

Unless, of course, Romanism is just Dead Wrong on this false teaching of hers... as she is so utterly wrong, on so many of her dogmas in so many areas of theology.

[sinkspur]

If it is not True that hundreds of millions or even billions of unbaptized infants are even now sweltering in the agonies of Hell, then why did the Roman Catholic church pronounce such dogma to be nihil obstat -- without error?

"Nihil obstat" is not necessarily consonant with Catholic doctrine.

I've never been taught, or heard, that unbaptized infants are in hell. Rather, the Church posits "limbo," a place of natural happiness.

The fact is, there is no infallible teaching about the souls of unbaptized infants. Thus, we are free to believe that God, in His own way, gives even the souls of infants the chance at choosing Him, and thus achieving the Beatific Vision.

[A.J.Armitage]

He dies for those who were worthy of His death, no more. And that's not many. I certainly would not consider myself one of those.

So you're still in your sins?