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Here's another "GREAT" review of the Passion out of Albany
http://www.evangelist.org/archive/htm5/0304zaas.htm ^

Posted on 03/07/2004 6:22:56 PM PST by rcath60

This article (opinion) appeared in the most recent issue of The Evangelist, the Albany Diocese's Roman Catholic newspaper. He is a professor at our Franciscan Catholic college here, Siena College.


TOPICS: Catholic; Charismatic Christian; Current Events; General Discusssion; Ministry/Outreach; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics; Theology
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To: malakhi
It seems to me that Christians are being as overly sensitive of criticism of the movie as Jews are of the content of the film.

I think this movie is unique in many ways but this one in particular: the intent or subtext of the criticism is an important consideration in giving credence or credibility to the criticism itself. This is not a silly bit of entertainment for many people; it is a video Icon of their faith. The continuing charge of anti-Semitism, aside form being unfounded, based on the overwhelming non occurrences generated by this movie, can be construed not so much a charge against the movie, but against the Christian faith. In other words are these criticisms in reality directed at the movie or the Gospels?

21 posted on 03/08/2004 9:35:16 AM PST by conservonator
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To: malakhi
Is it possible for anyone to critique or criticize this film without it being considered anti-Christian?

I can't answer for everyone, but I would say that anyone who finds fault with the film would find genuine, non-watered down Catholicism equally offensive. This film is the Stations of the Cross larger than life. For me, when this film is criticized it is also my faith, not only the film, that is being criticized.

22 posted on 03/08/2004 9:38:41 AM PST by old and tired (Go Toomey! Send Specter back to the Highlands!)
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To: conservonator
The continuing charge of anti-Semitism, aside form being unfounded

That's a separate topic for discussion. On what basis do you assert that the charge is unfounded? Do you think it is possible that Jews are going to be more sensitive to the portrayal of Jews than Christians are? Just as, in a movie about Catholics, Catholics would be more sensitive to how they are portrayed than Protestants would be?

I haven't seen the movie. I know many Christians who have said that the movie is not at all anti-semitic. But two Christian I know who have seen it have told me that the portrayal of the Jews is very negative. It seems to me that different people are going to view the movie in different ways.

In other words are these criticisms in reality directed at the movie or the Gospels?

I think, rather, that it is directed towards the 2000 years of intervening history.

23 posted on 03/08/2004 9:51:04 AM PST by malakhi
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To: old and tired
I can't answer for everyone, but I would say that anyone who finds fault with the film would find genuine, non-watered down Catholicism equally offensive.

Are you suggesting that it is above criticism?

That seems to be the impression I'm getting on many of these threads.

24 posted on 03/08/2004 9:52:39 AM PST by malakhi
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To: malakhi
Are you planning on seeing the movie? If you do see the movie it’s like to know if you can point out an anti-Semitic message from the movie. And if don't plan on attending the movie, Can point to one incident of anti-Semitism that was inspired by the movie? I don't know one Christian who came away from the movie with any anti-Semitic feeling, they were too focused on the Passion of Christ, not the fears of Abe Foxman.

I think, rather, that it is directed towards the 2000 years of intervening history.

So Christians can't be trusted, it's in our history so it must be part of who we are and what we believe? Should African Americans fear white people because of the historical fact of slavery? Can you see where this might be more than a little insulting?

25 posted on 03/08/2004 10:07:11 AM PST by conservonator
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To: malakhi; m4629; Northern Yankee; Desdemona; BlackElk; NYer; Romulus; Askel5; ninenot; B-Chan; ...
There are Jewish rabbis and other Jewish writers who understand what is happening -- the very thing that I was writing about. Rabbi Daniel Lapin probably captured it best in one of his columns.

I have read legitimate Jewish criticism of the content of the film by Michael Medved and Joel Segal.

One observation worth noting is that the most offensive thing done to date by Jewish commentators who have hurled the anti-Semitism charge is to presume to tell Christians what the Christian religion and what the Gospels are about. While it may be expected for a rabbi to offer such instruction in his community, it is offensive in the extreme for a rabbi to tell me a Catholic what my faith is about and what the Gospels should mean to me. Should I presume in response to tell him that rabbinical Judaism is not the real faith of the Torah and he better get busy building a Temple and getting some Kohanim to offer sacrifices? Absolutely not! Such an offense would go against all decency. Should I as a Catholic Christian question his credentials? Is he Reformed, Conservative, Reconstructionist, Orthodox, Lubavitcher, or a follower of some Kabbalistic rabbi few recognize? Should I then tell him what true Judaism is? I extend this line for a moment to make the point of how offensive it is to have such commentators telling me what my religion is while at the same time they denounce a film that enshrines what I believe to be most true about my religion. This is but one point, but I hope it illustrates some of the issues involved which are far deeper than Christians taking offense at Jewish criticism of a film as anti-Christian.

26 posted on 03/08/2004 10:27:22 AM PST by Siobhan (+Pray the Divine Mercy Chaplet+)
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To: conservonator
Are you planning on seeing the movie?

No. As a Jew, it has no theological significance to me. It would simply be watching a depiction of a man being tortured to death. No thanks.

Can point to one incident of anti-Semitism that was inspired by the movie

I don't see the relevence. If it doesn't directly inspire anti-semitic acts, then it can't be anti-semitic?

I don't know one Christian who came away from the movie with any anti-Semitic feeling

I don't think you'll see anything happen in this country. I'm concerned more about certain parts of Europe. And the Middle East.

So Christians can't be trusted, it's in our history so it must be part of who we are and what we believe? Should African Americans fear white people because of the historical fact of slavery? Can you see where this might be more than a little insulting?

Are you looking for an excuse to be insulted?

I didn't say anything about not being able to trust Christians. I'm saying that the problem isn't the gospels -- it is, rather, the unfortunate history of Christian-Jewish relations. Do you think the Coptic Christians in Egypt have no memory of Muslim persecution of their community?

27 posted on 03/08/2004 10:27:47 AM PST by malakhi
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Comment #28 Removed by Moderator

To: Siobhan
Should I presume in response to tell him that rabbinical Judaism is not the real faith of the Torah

LOL, are you serious?

Are you saying that you think rabbinical Judaism is the real faith of the Torah?

Should I then tell him what true Judaism is?

Ekklesia is used frequently in the Greek Old Testament for the assembly of the Chosen People before God, above all for their assembly on Mount Sinai where Israel received the Law and was established by God as his holy people. By calling itself "Church," the first community of Christian believers recognized itself as heir to that assembly. (Catechism of the Catholic Church, #751)

You already tell us what you think "true Judaism" is.

29 posted on 03/08/2004 10:49:41 AM PST by malakhi
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To: malakhi
No. But you seem inclined to assume....

....as well as to the craft of cut and paste.

30 posted on 03/08/2004 10:56:10 AM PST by Siobhan (+Pray the Divine Mercy Chaplet+)
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To: Siobhan
Was I wrong? Please explain my error.
31 posted on 03/08/2004 11:08:44 AM PST by malakhi
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To: malakhi
I didn't say anything about not being able to trust Christians. I'm saying that the problem isn't the gospels -- it is, rather, the unfortunate history of Christian-Jewish relations. Do you think the Coptic Christians in Egypt have no memory of Muslim persecution of their community?

I think holding anyone responsible for the sins of others is less than kind, honorable, useful, what ever. There is a difference between remembering events of the past and projecting events of the past. It seems like a lot of people are trying to put forward the notion that the movie will act as a lens that will project the past into the present.

Are you looking for an excuse to be insulted?

Funny, I feel the same way about all the comments regarding the alleged anti-Semitism found in the movie.

32 posted on 03/08/2004 11:18:28 AM PST by conservonator (If it makes you feel better, imagine that all my posts have the </sarcasm> tag at the end.)
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To: conservonator
Funny, I feel the same way about all the comments regarding the alleged anti-Semitism found in the movie.

Which brings us back to my original post: "It seems to me that Christians are being as overly sensitive of criticism of the movie as Jews are of the content of the film."

33 posted on 03/08/2004 12:05:06 PM PST by malakhi
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To: malakhi; conservonator; Desdemona; Siobhan
No. As a Jew, it has no theological significance to me. It would simply be watching a depiction of a man being tortured to death. No thanks. If it doesn't directly inspire anti-semitic acts, then it can't be anti-semitic?

It is mighty arrogant of you to take a position on this movie for not seeing it first hand. I was invited to see this movie by a Jewish friend of mine!!! He saw the movie twice and enjoyed it very much, and plans on seeing it at least one more time. How's that for a kicker?

Just because you claim it is anti-semitic and that make it so? Get real. People will see it and decide it for themselves. You know what happens when people cry wolf too often.

I'm concerned more about certain parts of Europe. And the Middle East. Do you think the Coptic Christians in Egypt have no memory of Muslim persecution of their community?

Look, if your intention is to subvert historical accounts by way of propaganda, you are never going to succeed. Christians will read about the Passion account every Easter, year after year, generation after generation, till the end of time.

Now, if you wish to critique other aspects of the movie such as cinematography or acting, that would be fine.

34 posted on 03/08/2004 1:23:53 PM PST by m4629
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To: m4629; conservonator
It is mighty arrogant of you to take a position on this movie for not seeing it first hand.

What position do you think I have taken on the movie?

Aside from references to comments I've heard from (Christian) friends who have seen it, I've reserved my observations to commenting on the posts on FR about the movie. Of which there is abundant material to peruse.

Just because you claim it is anti-semitic and that make it so?

I have made no such claim.

I have said that many Christians I know saw nothing anti-semitic about it. But that two Christian friends who have seen it thought that it did portray Jews negatively. That was their judgment, not mine. Not having seen it, I have not expressed an opinion on this aspect of the movie.

In the post to which you replied, I questioned conservonator's post where he seemed to suggest that, because there have been no anti-semitic acts resulting from the movie, then therefore it couldn't possibly be anti-semitic in content. My point is that the former does not necessarily imply the latter.

Look, if your intention is to subvert historical accounts by way of propaganda, you are never going to succeed.

Did you even read my post? By "history" I was talking about the 2000 years of Christian-Jewish relations since the composition of the gospels.

conservonator, I pinged you because I mentioned you.

35 posted on 03/08/2004 1:37:09 PM PST by malakhi
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To: malakhi
Which brings us back to my original post: "It seems to me that Christians are being as overly sensitive of criticism of the movie as Jews are of the content of the film."

You not only criticize the movie, you criticize the doctrine.

Should the opportunity arise that a movie of Jewish doctrine were to be criticized by Christians, you would feel the same way.

Why this simple concept is not understood, is beyond any rational comprehension.

36 posted on 03/08/2004 1:43:29 PM PST by Cold Heat (Suppose you were an idiot. Suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself. --Mark Twain)
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To: wirestripper
Should the opportunity arise that a movie of Jewish doctrine were to be criticized by Christians,

What are you talking about? Jewish scripture, writtings, law are ALL criticized on FR daily, under the guise of, "We love you and want you to come to Jesus!".

37 posted on 03/08/2004 1:48:38 PM PST by Bella_Bru
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To: wirestripper
You not only criticize the movie, you criticize the doctrine.

So what? Christian doctrine is above criticism?

Should the opportunity arise that a movie of Jewish doctrine were to be criticized by Christians, you would feel the same way.

Jewish belief is criticized by Christians all the time. Christian proselytization of Jews is grounded in the assumption that Jewish belief and practice is fundamentally wrong, and that Christian belief is true.

If you can't handle having your beliefs questioned, you're on the wrong forum.

38 posted on 03/08/2004 1:52:19 PM PST by malakhi
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To: malakhi
From the posts you have made, it seems to me that if you brought yourself to view this film, you would be quite surprised at how different your reactions are from those you expect - especially if you saw it a second time and the tension of the first viewing was not present.
39 posted on 03/08/2004 1:52:47 PM PST by AFPhys (My Passion review: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1089021/posts?page=13#13)
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To: Bella_Bru
What are you talking about? Jewish scripture, writtings, law are ALL criticized on FR daily, under the guise of, "We love you and want you to come to Jesus!".

LOL! That is not criticism! It is love.

40 posted on 03/08/2004 1:53:37 PM PST by Cold Heat (Suppose you were an idiot. Suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself. --Mark Twain)
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