A Freeper Review of The Passion of Christ

Vanity | 2/21/04 | John Fields

[jonboy]

I'm not sure where to start. I'm a fellow Freeper who also happens to be minister. I was invited today to see a screening of the Passion of the Christ at our local theater. I have been fascinated, and you might even be able to say obsessed with this movie ever since I heard about it a few months ago and first saw the trailer (I cried every time I saw it).

Given that I have watched and listened to several interviews and read several news stories about this movie I was as prepared as I thought I could be to watch it. I HAVE NEVER BEEN THROUGH ANYTHING LIKE THIS MOVIE! I sobbed, I throbbed, my Kleenex became a fairly useless mess that occupied the hand not tightly gripping the seat. IT WAS HARD TO WATCH. The cruelty was overwhelming, but approximated what we have a glimpse from in scripture. The violence and horror of what was done to Him nearly overwhelming, but not gratuitous as some have claimed.

As to the charges of anti-semitism, I can understand how a Jew who does not believe that Jesus is their Messiah would be frightened by this film. However, it was NOT anti-semitic. I could just as easily be moved to be against Italians for what the Romans did as I could be against the Jews. If one were inspired to hate the perpetrators if this event, they would be anti-Christian, anti-Semitic, anti-Arab, anti-Japanese, and anti-__________ (fill in your own blanks). I was filled with the grim overwhelming knowledge of my own guilt as much as anything else. As I watched Him writhing in pain, the ribs virtually exposed from the beating that He had taken, as I watched His shoulder ripped out of socket as they stretched his hand to make it to the pre-drilled nail hole, as I watched the blood flowing and the breath ripped from His body from the pain, one thing entered into my mind above all else. I PUT HIM THERE! He could have come down, He could have called in excess of ten-thousand angels. He could have stopped that horrible mockery and evil in its tracks by coming down off of that cross, healing His own wounds, and then saying go to it boys as He releases the angels to take care of business. BUT HE DIDN'T. I am in awe.

I admit that I has moments when I felt like ripping the Jewish and Roman perpetrators apart. How dare they laugh in the face of such agony! How dare they spit on Him! How dare they stand in pompous, arrogant, self-righteous judgment of the King of Kings and Lord of Lords (how dare MYSELF go on sinning after what He did for me)! But as the High Priest is walking away from making fun and mocking. He hears Jesus softly say, taking up precious breath, "Father forgive them, they don't know what they are doing." The High Priest pauses in uncomfortable silence, then walks on. Later, after Jesus has died and the earthquake has damaged the temple and they are very aware that they have done something terribly wrong the High Priest is seen crying out and holding his face in grief and horror.

This movie was about love and forgiveness and about our sin and what God and His Son did together about that sin. It is about the horrible things that men do to their fellow men which can still be forgiven if they will but repent. Some of the Jews were depraved and some were compassionate. Some of the Romans were depraved, and some of them were inclined towards compassion. Anti-Jewish? NO WAY! Besides, the early church was exlusively Jewish. The movie is not about Mel Gibson having some kind of point to prove to anyone, let alone the Jews. It was Mel's passion, a labor of love. Will it profit Him? Unbelievably! Did he do it for the money, not a chance.

Were there any liberties taken with the scripture? Maybe a few. Poetic/artistic license was taken to a degree. There were some scenes with Judas that were extra Biblical, but imaginable. Surprisingly, he was shown as a somewhat sympathetic character, which is something I've felt to a degree for him. I doubt that he was a completely depraved man, he just wanted to speed things along so that Jesus would have to rise to the throne and have to take His true place. When he realized he had been horribly mis-lead he admitted guilt but then went out and killed himself. There was a scene in which the unrepentant thief had his eyes pecked out by a crow. I thought that didn't gel well with the theme of forgiveness and should have been left out. It seemed to represent Divine retribution since the thief had just been blaspheming Jesus. But the cross wasn't about retribution, that will come later at Judgment, it was about mercy.

As to this movie being appropriate for children? That's a hard call. I think it would be best if conscientous parents screened it for themselves first. It is hard enough for mature adults to stomach. However, there is something to be said for exposing young tender hearts to the truth of what He did. Maybe knowing what He did at a younger age would lead to more mature Christians later. Again, it's an individual call.

Is this movie Catholic? Yes and no. Those who see the relationship between Jesus and Mary who are Catholic will likely see Mary as divine. Those of us who believe that Mary was a mere woman who was blessed enough to have been chosen to be the mother of the Christ will see the relationship between a mother and her Son. THIS MOVIE IS FOR ALL!!! I can wholeheartedly recommend this movie to others for personal devotion or to touch the hearts of those who are lost. I believe very much that it will be a culturally defining movie and that it will break most IF NOT ALL of the box office records both nationally and world-wide. The Lord will not be silenced. I truly feel He has spoken through this movie. Maybe its His way of saying WAKE UP before He comes again. If it is, this Christian is awake (wiping away tears).

[GirlShortstop]

I am comfortable in my belief that Mary is considered by Catholics to be Divine

I dig simplicity;  I find it right smack in your statement, jonboy.   Your **non-Catholic** belief doesn't amount to squat to Catholics; it doesn't make it Catholic belief.  That's the reason we're not jonboyists or any other YOPIOS-come-lately-ists.  Let's be sure that's clear:  your (and the others' - those that've rejected what Catholics have shared) belief is not Catholic belief.  Pretty simple, isn't it?

[Dataman]

Thanks for the review, except for the misrepresentation about the Catholic view of Mary -- she is NOT divine and the Catholic Church has never taught that.

Yes his remark (follows) was a bit bizarre.

Is this movie Catholic? Yes and no. Those who see the relationship between Jesus and Mary who are Catholic will likely see Mary as divine. Those of us who believe that Mary was a mere woman who was blessed enough to have been chosen to be the mother of the Christ will see the relationship between a mother and her Son.

He asks if the movie was Catholic and answers by offering what he thinks certain people will see. That's like asking how the pie tastes and answering with a weather forecast.

[jonboy]

I dig simplicity; I find it right smack in your statement, jonboy. Your **non-Catholic** belief doesn't amount to squat to Catholics; it doesn't make it Catholic belief. That's the reason we're not jonboyists or any other YOPIOS-come-lately-ists. Let's be sure that's clear: your (and the others' - those that've rejected what Catholics have shared) belief is not Catholic belief. Pretty simple, isn't it?

Some people don't get it when someone is trying to merely make a point by imitating someone else. If you look at what JulieRNR21 said:

Jon.....I do not feel threatened. I am just not interested in trying to refute your interpretation of those scriptures.
Your opinion is apparently based on your own intense study of scriptures which is admirable. I am comfortable with my Faith and have no desire to enter into a dialogue over those scriptures or any others you might present.

I think all believers ought to be interested in honest dialogue, that's why it bothered my when she in essence shut me out. To illustrate what it would have been like to have been on the receiving end of such a statement I made a similar statement (not meant as truth but done to illustrate why such a mentality is counter-productive). This was the statement.

The response by Jonboy that wasn't: I am comfortable in my belief that Mary is considered by Catholics to be Divine and have no desire to get into a dialogue about those traditions or any other scriptures that you might present.

I never said that to be my belief and attitude, I said that to point out that had it been it would have been wrong. I assume that you honestly mistook what I said. I hope that this clarifys it.

[GirlShortstop]

I said that to point out that had it been it would have been wrong. I assume that you honestly mistook what I said. I hope that this clarifys it.

Ah, yes.  I think I do see what you've done, you interjected a hypothetical, "a thought" in your post to JulieRNR21.

"I am comfortable in my belief that Mary is considered by Catholics to be Divine "

What you have presented here, the only line I included/addressed in my post above, this is just a thought, and not your belief?

[jonboy]

Words mean things. I saw the info on your page that said you are a scholar. Sorry you think that a different belief than yours must be a twisted belief. I wouldn't trust the scholarship of anyone who couldn't see an honest person when he sees one honestly attempting a dialogue and who can't see that the way SOME Catholic beliefs are communicated is unclear to many people from a non-Catholic perspective. When I say that I am not twisting something (and know that I'm not) and then you come along and say that I am twisting things you might as well call me a liar. It offends me very much!

Let me state categorically, when at least 30 Catholics respond in my thread and tell me that they believe that Mary is not divine, I believe it. I don't believe that any were trying to mis-lead me. My point all along has been that although you don't believe that, it is unintentionally being communicated that way. The breakdown in that communication hasn't been from merely the hearers perspective. If you want to properly communicate your beliefs to a non-Catholic world, you need to take more care in properly framing the message. If you can't see that, oh well.

[jonboy]

Correct, I now KNOW that Catholics do not consider Mary to be divine. My main point since then has been that the divinity of Mary has unintentionally been communicated to a non-Catholic world. Many of the things that I posted from Catholics seem to communicate precisely the opposite of what they believe, that Mary is divine.

[GirlShortstop]

Correct, I now KNOW that Catholics do not consider Mary to be divine

that the divinity of Mary has unintentionally been communicated to a non-Catholic world

things that I posted from Catholics seem to communicate precisely the opposite of what they believe, that Mary is divine.

You do not believe that Mary is Divine.   Catholic belief affirms that, and Catholics have testified to that.  

You included:   Is this movie Catholic? Yes and no. Those who see the relationship between Jesus and Mary who are Catholic will likely see Mary as divine.  in your review, because...???

[GirlShortstop]

You included:  Is this movie Catholic? Yes and no. Those who see the relationship between Jesus and Mary who are Catholic will likely see Mary as divine.   in your review, because...???

I missed a word in your first statement.  "Correct, I now KNOW ..."
I retract my question because I see that I can conclude that you made a mistake.  I hope you'll accept my apology.

[Fury]

Thanks for your review. I'm sorry the thread turned into a discussion on Catholic doctrine, instead of what you intended - a review of the movie.

[Dr. Scarpetta]

BUMP

[Salvation]

**Correct, I now KNOW that Catholics do not consider Mary to be divine.**

When are you getting this Catholic information?

[Salvation]

This is Catholic teaching:

The Catechism of the Catholic Church

966 "Finally the Immaculate Virgin, preserved free from all stain of original sin, when the course of her earthly life was finished, was taken up body and soul into heavenly glory, and exalted by the Lord as Queen over all things, so that she might be the more fully conformed to her Son, the Lord of lords and conqueror of sin and death." The Assumption of the Blessed Virgin is a singular participation in her Son's Resurrection and an anticipation of the resurrection of other Christians:

In giving birth you kept your virginity; in your Dormition you did not leave the world, O Mother of God, but were joined to the source of Life. You conceived the living God and, by your prayers, will deliver our souls from death.

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2853 Victory over the "prince of this world" was won once for all at the Hour when Jesus freely gave himself up to death to give us his life. This is the judgment of this world, and the prince of this world is "cast out." "He pursued the woman" but had no hold on her: the new Eve, "full of grace" of the Holy Spirit, is preserved from sin and the corruption of death (the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption of the Most Holy Mother of God, Mary, ever virgin). "Then the dragon was angry with the woman, and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring." Therefore the Spirit and the Church pray: "Come, Lord Jesus," since his coming will deliver us from the Evil One.

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2177 The Sunday celebration of the Lord's Day and his Eucharist is at the heart of the Church's life. "Sunday is the day on which the paschal mystery is celebrated in light of the apostolic tradition and is to be observed as the foremost holy day of obligation in the universal Church."

"Also to be observed are the day of the Nativity of Our Lord Jesus Christ, the Epiphany, the Ascension of Christ, the feast of the Body and Blood of Christi, the feast of Mary the Mother of God, her Immaculate Conception, her Assumption, the feast of Saint Joseph, the feast of the Apostles Saints Peter and Paul, and the feast of All Saints."

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[Salvation]

Sorry about the double post. I have asked the moderator to delete # 453

And I will be more patient.

[Salvation]

As a minister I think you will appreciate the words of the Archbishop of Atlanta.

Dear friends, the lesson of The Passion is terrible — and beautiful — to behold, but the truth of accepting and making this lesson a part of our own lives, is to gain deeper faith in the ultimate outcome of Christ's purpose in coming among mankind — His victory over death — our death — "...to give his life as a ransom for many." May this magnificent film, a gift from God, help us to learn what we need to know, and may our Lenten and Easter celebrations this year, bring us an abundance of contrition, repentance, and new-found hope in the power of Jesus Christ to save us, and give us eternal life.

Sincerely yours,

Most Reverend John F. Donoghue
Archbishop of Atlanta

[what's up]

If they don't believe, Mary is divine, they sure often act like it. I find it shocking the number of statues found representing Mary, often more than Jesus, particularly in other countries but also sometimes here in the US.

A relative of mine has a large statue of Mary situated in the corner of the living room. Statue of Jesus...nowhere to be found.

I'm glad I left the Catholic church. All this dependence on fallible men as popes and extra-Biblical sources never led me close to God. Then I learned how to study the Bible and everything changed.

[MiniCooperChick]

I will obey the instructions of Jesus, rather than recite the man-made, non-authoritative Hail Mary

This is a direct quote. I ask again, do you ever make up your own prayers or do you only quote Scripture when you pray to God? For if you do, you are praying a "man-made" prayer.

Don't worry, I'm hardly a "wounded Catholic victim". I WILL NOT stand for Catholic-bashing, however and I detect an undertone in your posts which leads me to believe you are engaging in such. FReegards!

[Ephesians210]

Re:My big point is this: if you have ever had sexual relations with another person, you know how intimate it can be. I don't need to go into any of the nitty gritty details here, suffice to say, that I simply cannot believe that any man, as holy as he himself might be, could actually bring to fruition following through on sexual intercourse with a young woman who, though a virgin, got pregnant and bore the Son of God. If you think Joseph could have, then I think you do not hold the Lord in as high esteem as He should be held. Don't you think that part of the reason people in that time did not believe that Jesus was the Son of God is because that is a difficult concept to understand?

That's how the theory goes, but it leaves out a lot.

For instance, a Biblical marriage in the eyes of God is one where the marriage is consumated by the man and woman "becoming one flesh".

Joseph and Mary would have been in violation of God's marriage laws that required a legal marriage to be consumated in the sexual union of the husband and wife.

Also, that theory leaves out this:

Matthew 1
24Then Joseph, being aroused from sleep, did as the angel of the Lord commanded him and took to him his wife, 25and did not know her till she had brought forth her firstborn Son.

==================

Scripture clearly says that Jospeh did not "know" Mary, in the conjugal sense, until after she gave birth, when their marriage was consumated sexually as required by God's law.

[jonboy]

Sheesh, give me a break. You seem to be a smart person. At the time I posted that I thought that Catholics DID believe that Mary was divine and was corrected MULTIPLE times. I get it OK!!!! Do you think I'm a liar? Good grief.

[jonboy]

I accept your apology. Please accept mine, my response was posted BEFORE I got to the apology. LOL!