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Lessons of the Estrada Defeat
Legal Theory Blog ^ | September 4, 2003 | Prof. Lawrence Solum

Posted on 09/04/2003 3:47:38 PM PDT by pogo101

Withdrawal: What Does Estrada's Decision Mean?



TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: estrada; filibuster; judiciary; lessons; nuclearoption; senate
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To: Congressman Billybob; mhking
Perhaps. Still, I'm a little leery.

The fact is, any Senator who can get 40 other Senators to vote with him due to agreement on an issue, a trade-off (pork projects or support for a bill), or even blackmail (knowing where a political body is buried). For legislation, I think the filibuster is legit.

On the advice and consent part, it isn't, and that is probably where the nuke ought to be used, but doing so WILL have some effects down the road. NOTHING of substance will be done after that nuke is used for the rest of the Congress involved.

The timing will be critical, IMO. Pass the appropriations and energy bill, then use the nuke on the nominations. Daschle can hold up everything else after that point.
61 posted on 09/05/2003 9:58:44 AM PDT by hchutch (The National League needs to adopt the designated hitter rule.)
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To: Kaisersrsic
I would be surprised if Bush nominated Al Gonzales for the Appeals Court seat. Gonzales is a personal friend of Bush. Therefore Bush would have to win the confirmation battle at all cost. I do not believe that Bush is prepared to do that before the next election.
62 posted on 09/05/2003 10:02:41 AM PDT by Zack Nguyen
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To: Congressman Billybob
Congressman, is McCain-Feingold to be ruled on soon? The post above mentioned it.
63 posted on 09/05/2003 10:03:43 AM PDT by Zack Nguyen
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To: Zack Nguyen
McCain-Feingold (the Campaign Finance "Reform" Act) will be argued in the US Supreme Court on Monday the 8th. It has been specially set for that day -- the Court has never before heard any case in September, before the regular Term begins. And it has been given an exceptional four hours for argument by the various parties.

The Opinion of the Court will not be handed down for two to three months. I expect the decision to be very long, very complex, and vigorously split between Justice Scalia and Justice Goldberg, to choose to names not entirely at random.

I expect my brief filed in the case to be on the winning side. The Court should strike down either the entire law, or more likely, large chunks of the law, as unconstitutional. Anyone with an interest in constitutional law is welcome to read my brief. Go to:

http://www.supremecourtus.gov then click on "Campaign Finance Case" then scroll down to "Amicus Briefs." Mine is the one filed for the "American Civil Rights Union."

Congressman Billybob

Latest column, "We Are Running for Congress -- Maybe," discussion thread on FR.

64 posted on 09/05/2003 11:19:35 AM PDT by Congressman Billybob (Everyone talks about Congress; time to act on it. www.ArmorforCongress.com)
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To: hchutch
Keep in mind the context in which the tactical nuke would be used. Here's how it works:

A Senator favoring the Bush appointees now being held up, arises and makes a "Point of Order," that under the Constitution, Article II, only a majority vote can be applied to a judicial nomination. The President of the Senate, probably Dick Cheney for this special occasion, rules that the "Point is well-taken, and majority vote is correct."

An anti-Bush Senator then explodes out of his seat and says, "I object to the ruling of the Chair." But under the Senate's Standing Rules, the Chair's ruling remains unless overruled by a majority of the Senators present.

There is one thing that Senators all agree on, left and right, Republican and Democrat, the whole lot of them. It is that Senators are REALLY IMPORTANT PEOPLE, and their PREROGATIVES ARE CARVED IN STONE. So it will not be easy cobbling together the guaranteed 51 rock solid votes to uphold the ruling of the Chair.

The only thing worse than not going nuclear would be going nuclear and losing that critical vote. That would cost all the pending nominees and embolden the Democrats to savage the next Supreme Court nominee -- whom as I said will come in June, 2004, if not before.

Remember, this is more than merely a partisan issue. This one concerns the egos of each and every Senator. That's why I am CERTAIN that if the nuke option is used, it will be restricted to the narrow issue of judicial nominations, and nothing more. Not even the Republican Senators (and their egos) would permit it to go further than that.

Does that make sense?

Congressman Billybob

Latest column, "We Are Running for Congress -- Maybe," discussion thread on FR.

65 posted on 09/05/2003 11:32:20 AM PDT by Congressman Billybob (Everyone talks about Congress; time to act on it. www.ArmorforCongress.com)
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To: bondserv
i respectfully disagree with you on this ..as long as the cowards in charge dont show any back bone the numbers could be 99 to one and they still would cave in to the RATS...a note to all nominees..dont count on the so call republicans in the senate to help you in any way...
66 posted on 09/05/2003 11:35:40 AM PDT by rrrod
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To: Congressman Billybob
It does. My concern is that enough would be ego-driven enough to stop the thing over judicial nominations. Four in particular, concern me on that: Chafee, Specter, Collins, and Snowe.

Those four are, shall we say... less than reliable for that sort of thing. You may want to add McCain to the list as well.
67 posted on 09/05/2003 11:44:52 AM PDT by hchutch (The National League needs to adopt the designated hitter rule.)
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To: Cicero
Don't be surprised if Frist retires. He skipped off to the Sudan the other day to perform what he called something like "his first love". I don't think he has the stomach to act tough.
68 posted on 09/05/2003 12:50:56 PM PDT by joybelle
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To: pogo101
this is an incredible post on the Estrada matter. I have followed it closely, but I am no lawyer and and I really appreciate this post.

I was thinking the GOP has a good chance to get +3 seats next time which would give 54 seats. Then with a few Dem votes, the pressure on other senators would be much higher. Getting just a few more GOP senators would really help solve this.
69 posted on 09/05/2003 12:56:26 PM PDT by votelife (Free Bill Pryor)
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To: caltrop
If Gonzales is more likely, I just hope he's conservative.
70 posted on 09/05/2003 12:59:34 PM PDT by votelife (Free Bill Pryor)
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To: votelife
My guess about Gonzales is that he is somewhere to the right of Kennedy and O'Connor but somewhere to the left of Scalia and Thomas.

Which leaves a lot of acreage, mind you.
71 posted on 09/05/2003 1:03:13 PM PDT by pogo101
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To: Congressman Billybob
Thank you, Congressman. We'll hope and pray for the best.
72 posted on 09/05/2003 2:20:51 PM PDT by Zack Nguyen
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To: Congressman Billybob
"The proper use of the nuclear option is tactical, not theater. It can and should be used ONLY to eliminate the filibuster as applied to judicial nominations and no other subject. That way, judicial confirmations will go back to what the Constitution requires -- majority vote only. And all other activities of the Senate will continue as before. "

EXACTLY as I see it. Those pompous Senators would NEVER allow themselves to be relegated to the level of a mere Congresscritter. I've been spitting nails as to just WHY our noodle-spined Senate Republicans seem to lose all nerve once they get into the Senate. Seems like Republicans breed all the warriors in this country UNTIL they get into the Senate. Is castration part of the Republican swear-in ceremony?

Nam Vet

73 posted on 09/05/2003 11:00:34 PM PDT by Nam Vet (It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others.)
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To: unspun
Buddy, we can't bring hispanics to our Right side, when Davis is allowing them driver's license's for illegals so they can register!
74 posted on 09/06/2003 12:31:49 AM PDT by JustPiper ( There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in.)
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To: JustPiper
Buddy, we can't bring hispanics to our Right side, when Davis is allowing them driver's license's for illegals so they can register

I'm talking about real Americans, of Hispanic ancestry. :-)

75 posted on 09/08/2003 9:47:20 AM PDT by unspun ("Do everything in love." | No I don't look anything like her but I do like to hear "Unspun w/ AnnaZ")
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To: votelife
I think +3 might be on the lower end of the real of possibilities.

We could go anywhere from +2 to +7 (SC, FL, NC, GA, NV, WI, LA, and WA, while losing IL). We will need lucky breaks to win WI, NV, and LA, so I think +4 is more likely, but we could go higher with Bush atthe top of the ticket.
76 posted on 09/08/2003 9:52:31 AM PDT by hchutch (The National League needs to adopt the designated hitter rule.)
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Comment #77 Removed by Moderator

To: AntiMatter
You are talking about the principle of stare decisis, that once the Supreme Court makes a decision, it should stick to that decision. That principle, however, is not an absolute. If we still had the Dred Scott decision, slavery would still be legal. If we still had Plessy v. Ferguson, segregation would still be legal.

About 120 times in its history, the Court has changed its mind on prior decisions. Sometimes it just "limited the prior decision to its facts." Sometimes it actually "overruled" its prior decision. Because of stare decisis, such changes should be rare. But the option of change should remain available to all future Courts.

It is wrong to insist that any future Justice will definitely vote to overturn a certain prior decision. It is equally wrong to insist that any future Justice will definitely vote to continue a prior decision. It is wrong across the board for Senators to ask ANY Court nominee to state an absolute commitment on ANY issue that may well come before the Court. And any nominee who made such a commitment should be disqualified to sit in judgment of such a future case.

What we should be looking for is the judicial philosophy of a potential Justice. Is this a person who believes the Constitution and laws should be obeyed? Or is this a person who believes the Court has the right to change the Constitution and the laws to suit what that Justice considers "appropriate" in "modern times." That's where I draw the line.

Congressman Billybob

Latest column, "We Are Running for Congress -- Maybe," discussion thread on FR.

78 posted on 09/08/2003 10:27:36 AM PDT by Congressman Billybob (Everyone talks about Congress; time to act on it. www.ArmorforCongress.com)
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To: hchutch
SD is another possibility with Daschle against Thune??? Run Thune run!
79 posted on 09/08/2003 5:53:58 PM PDT by votelife (Free Bill Pryor)
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To: votelife
from an AP article where Cheney is campaigning in NH...

He also won applause for urging a return to "dignity and civility" the process of judicial nominations.

"Right now, far too many nominations to the federal bench are being held up by the threat of filibuster," he said. "Our friends on the other side of the aisle refuse to allow nominees of great merit to even have a vote on the Senate floor."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,98177,00.html
80 posted on 09/24/2003 2:33:38 PM PDT by votelife (Free Bill Pryor)
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