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1 posted on 08/31/2003 9:31:43 PM PDT by USA1PATRIOT
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To: risk
ping
2 posted on 08/31/2003 9:36:19 PM PDT by farmfriend ( Isaiah 55:10,11)
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To: USA1PATRIOT
SPOTREP
3 posted on 08/31/2003 9:40:24 PM PDT by LiteKeeper
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To: Tacis; OWK
try to dissemble this!
4 posted on 08/31/2003 9:48:37 PM PDT by Don W (Lead, follow, or get outta the way!)
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To: USA1PATRIOT
Bump a great post!
5 posted on 08/31/2003 9:49:01 PM PDT by lakey (It's the Constitution, stupid!)
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To: USA1PATRIOT
Was Patrick Henry a christian?

Patrick Henry if I recall correctly was not only a Christian, but a practicing minister...

the infowarrior

6 posted on 08/31/2003 9:51:52 PM PDT by infowarrior
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To: USA1PATRIOT
Great post! I'm copying and pasting this for my home-schooled son to read and research on his own.
7 posted on 08/31/2003 9:55:22 PM PDT by eldoradude (Boom Boom, out go the lights!)
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To: USA1PATRIOT
Excellent summary.
8 posted on 08/31/2003 9:58:45 PM PDT by skr (The liberals are only interested in seeking Weapons for Bush Destruction)
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To: USA1PATRIOT
Thanks for the great post. Let's spread this far and wide.

Red

9 posted on 08/31/2003 10:00:46 PM PDT by Conservative4Ever (life is but a dream...Sha Boom)
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To: USA1PATRIOT
Brilliant! But where was this post last week, when FR's Christians had their backs to the monument, and were surrounded by a snarling pack of atheists? Oh well, better late than never. Cheers, By
10 posted on 08/31/2003 10:02:52 PM PDT by Byron_the_Aussie (http://www.theinterviewwithgod.com/popup2.html)
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To: USA1PATRIOT
A different view.
11 posted on 08/31/2003 10:12:19 PM PDT by KDD
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To: USA1PATRIOT
We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We have staked the future of all of our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind of self-government; upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God.

- James Madison
13 posted on 08/31/2003 10:41:33 PM PDT by TheDon (Tock, tick, tock, tick...the sound of the clock ticking down the time until Tom drops out.)
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To: USA1PATRIOT
You're right. I was never taught that, but I did learn it later. Somehow most of us knew from our readings and in our hearts that the founders were deeply religious and that religion, christianity,is what gave footing to the American Revolution.
15 posted on 08/31/2003 10:54:28 PM PDT by hedgetrimmer
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To: USA1PATRIOT
bttt
16 posted on 08/31/2003 11:01:38 PM PDT by rightofrush (right of Rush, and Buchanan too.)
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To: USA1PATRIOT
Enough of this incessant skewing of OUR history for narrow purposes.

In the first place, the majority of the Founders weren't "Christians", they were "Deists", several were Freemasons.

Thomas Jefferson??

His famous letter to the Baptists of Danbury with the phrase "wall of separation between church and state" is the tip of the iceberg. Any semi-serious study of his writings and his life will quickly clear up where he stood on the question.

His "Bill for Establishing Religious Freedom in Virginia", one of his fondest achievements (his self-written epitaph reads "Here was buried Thomas Jefferson, Author of the Declaration of American Independence, of the Statute of Virginia for Religious Freedom, And Father of the University of Virginia.") provided not only for Freedom of Religion but also freedom FROM religion.

"I am for freedom of religion and against all maneuvers to bring about a legal ascendancy of one sect over another."
letter to Elbridge Gerry, January 26, 1799

"And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a Virgin Mary, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter.... But we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away [with] all this artificial scaffolding."
letter to John Adams, 11 April 1823

Speaking of John Adams, it is convenient, but intellectually dishonest, to forget that as President he signed the Treaty of Tripoli on 10 June 1797. Article 11 states ""As the Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

James Madison??

"What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not."

"[T]he number, the industry and the morality of the priesthood, and the devotion of the people have been manifestly increased by the total separation of the church and state."
letter, 1819

"Religion and government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together."

"The United States is in no sense founded upon the Christian doctrine."
George Washington

The Founders displayed the wisdom to not only protect the State from religion, but also protect religion from the State. Those who pretend to superior wisdom frequently resort to distortion of the Founders' words and beliefs. This screed is merely one more example.

17 posted on 08/31/2003 11:47:12 PM PDT by UncleJeff
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To: USA1PATRIOT
When Jefferson said he was a "real Christian" he meant that he subscribed to the moral teachings of Jesus. He wasn't so keen on orthodox theological concepts, which he regarded as a latter addition to Christ's teachings. Appearances can be deceptive: Jefferson, Adams and some other founders were more unitarian than orthodox trinitarian Christians. Also, the evangelical idea of Christianity wasn't as widespread in the 18th century as it was later, and many prominent people were Christians in a social sense, rather than out of a deep personal faith and committment.
33 posted on 02/11/2004 7:51:41 PM PST by x
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