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"HISTORY FORGOTTEN"
Posted on 08/31/2003 9:31:42 PM PDT by USA1PATRIOT
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To: risk
ping
2
posted on
08/31/2003 9:36:19 PM PDT
by
farmfriend
( Isaiah 55:10,11)
To: USA1PATRIOT
SPOTREP
To: Tacis; OWK
try to dissemble this!
4
posted on
08/31/2003 9:48:37 PM PDT
by
Don W
(Lead, follow, or get outta the way!)
To: USA1PATRIOT
Bump a great post!
5
posted on
08/31/2003 9:49:01 PM PDT
by
lakey
(It's the Constitution, stupid!)
To: USA1PATRIOT
Was Patrick Henry a christian?Patrick Henry if I recall correctly was not only a Christian, but a practicing minister...
the infowarrior
To: USA1PATRIOT
Great post! I'm copying and pasting this for my home-schooled son to read and research on his own.
7
posted on
08/31/2003 9:55:22 PM PDT
by
eldoradude
(Boom Boom, out go the lights!)
To: USA1PATRIOT
Excellent summary.
8
posted on
08/31/2003 9:58:45 PM PDT
by
skr
(The liberals are only interested in seeking Weapons for Bush Destruction)
To: USA1PATRIOT
Thanks for the great post. Let's spread this far and wide.
Red
9
posted on
08/31/2003 10:00:46 PM PDT
by
Conservative4Ever
(life is but a dream...Sha Boom)
To: USA1PATRIOT
Brilliant! But where was this post last week, when FR's Christians had their backs to the monument, and were surrounded by a snarling pack of atheists? Oh well, better late than never. Cheers, By
10
posted on
08/31/2003 10:02:52 PM PDT
by
Byron_the_Aussie
(http://www.theinterviewwithgod.com/popup2.html)
To: USA1PATRIOT
11
posted on
08/31/2003 10:12:19 PM PDT
by
KDD
To: Conservative4Ever
Dittoes to your thank you!......I wonder if the Judge in the Ten Commandments case in Al. has ever read what Madison said about them.
12
posted on
08/31/2003 10:29:17 PM PDT
by
BnBlFlag
(Deo Vindice/Semper Fidelis)
To: USA1PATRIOT
We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We have staked the future of all of our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind of self-government; upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God.
- James Madison
13
posted on
08/31/2003 10:41:33 PM PDT
by
TheDon
(Tock, tick, tock, tick...the sound of the clock ticking down the time until Tom drops out.)
To: KDD
If you combine the quotes above with some from your reference, I get the impression that these were deeply religious people who had qualms with the Church and allowing it power. Consider the following from Madison:
"What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not." "We have staked the whole future of all our political constitutions upon the capacity of each of ourselves to govern ourselves according to the moral principles of the Ten Commandments."
14
posted on
08/31/2003 10:50:55 PM PDT
by
KayEyeDoubleDee
(const tag& thisTagWontChange)
To: USA1PATRIOT
You're right. I was never taught that, but I did learn it later. Somehow most of us knew from our readings and in our hearts that the founders were deeply religious and that religion, christianity,is what gave footing to the American Revolution.
To: USA1PATRIOT
bttt
16
posted on
08/31/2003 11:01:38 PM PDT
by
rightofrush
(right of Rush, and Buchanan too.)
To: USA1PATRIOT
Enough of this incessant skewing of OUR history for narrow purposes.
In the first place, the majority of the Founders weren't "Christians", they were "Deists", several were Freemasons.
Thomas Jefferson??
His famous letter to the Baptists of Danbury with the phrase "wall of separation between church and state" is the tip of the iceberg. Any semi-serious study of his writings and his life will quickly clear up where he stood on the question.
His "Bill for Establishing Religious Freedom in Virginia", one of his fondest achievements (his self-written epitaph reads "Here was buried Thomas Jefferson, Author of the Declaration of American Independence, of the Statute of Virginia for Religious Freedom, And Father of the University of Virginia.") provided not only for Freedom of Religion but also freedom FROM religion.
"I am for freedom of religion and against all maneuvers to bring about a legal ascendancy of one sect over another."
letter to Elbridge Gerry, January 26, 1799
"And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a Virgin Mary, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter.... But we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away [with] all this artificial scaffolding."
letter to John Adams, 11 April 1823
Speaking of John Adams, it is convenient, but intellectually dishonest, to forget that as President he signed the Treaty of Tripoli on 10 June 1797. Article 11 states ""As the Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."
James Madison??
"What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not."
"[T]he number, the industry and the morality of the priesthood, and the devotion of the people have been manifestly increased by the total separation of the church and state."
letter, 1819
"Religion and government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together."
"The United States is in no sense founded upon the Christian doctrine."
George Washington
The Founders displayed the wisdom to not only protect the State from religion, but also protect religion from the State. Those who pretend to superior wisdom frequently resort to distortion of the Founders' words and beliefs. This screed is merely one more example.
To: KDD
KDD
Your reply and link is fought with the same attempt to rewrite history and the historical content, as is this nation is made to witness, every day by every suffering liberal. By citing ONLY the line that suits the argument, one does not have to contemplate or attempt to witness the truth of the whole and complete statement in context. I was very interested in the dates of publish, to which your link relied upon. I believe it makes my point, rather than dispel it.
The fact of the matter, is that the historical record is replete with the Founding Fathers witness to "God", to which today, liberals beg never happened. One also must understand that the name "God", IS NOT A RELIGION, rather, it is the acceptance of one that is greater than ourselves. Let's be honest. The argument is less about "God", than the leftist's attempts to rid this country of every moral principle. As long as people believe in a "God", and the moral responsibility therein, as is found in every religion, the leftists will never be able to legally smoke, drop, shoot or otherwise ingest whatever drug they want, nor will they be able to legally abuse children, women, animals or themselves. They will not be able to steal, abuse, hurt, rape or kill at their pleasure as long as those "morals" are intact and the basis for ALL criminal and civil law in this country. One must ask themselves, why are the leftist in America, really so afraid of something as common sense as the "Ten Commandments"?
Perhaps the most stunning difference between those that believe in a "God" and those that believe in nothing, is that those that believe in nothing, demand (and file suit) (so) that everyone else, believe exactly in what they believe.
So in the end, the truth remains the truth, while the liberal rewrite of history, fails even the most cursory review with any degree honesty, truth or historical context.
To: KayEyeDoubleDee; KDD; liberallarry
If you combine the quotes above with some from your reference, I get the impression that these were deeply religious people who had qualms with the Church and allowing it power. Very much so; they were resolute about it. The Reformation had brought the Enlightenment (the best thinking of which American principles of liberty were based), it had triggered the Gunpowder Plot (Guy Fawkes), and had swept the Pilgrims to America. There was deep fear of the influences both of the Anglican and the Roman Catholic churches, or of any future religious entity on the fate of the American government. Christians themselves can be among the most vociferous critics of proponents of theocracy. Many believe it will actually be a corruption of Christian beliefs imposed by the American government itself that coincides with the last days.
19
posted on
09/01/2003 12:53:20 AM PDT
by
risk
To: USA1PATRIOT; KDD
[W]hy are the leftist in America, really so afraid of something as common sense as the "Ten Commandments"? Conservative Americans should be worried about it, too.
- The first four commandments are based on a specific religion. To state that all American laws are based on them is to exclude members of other faiths, or dismiss nonbelievers. This is one of the main reasons we have an exclusion clause in the first place.
- The 10 commandments form the basis of religious dogma. Our nation's freedoms are based on ideas that can all be explained rationally without recourse to religion. Religion can and has inspired us, but each of our laws must also be explained by logic and arguments based on fact.
It's easy to see Moore's troubles in terms of an American rejection of religion. However, this is not the case. His specific argument that the 10 commandments in total were the basis of our laws is what got him in trouble. When one considers that nonbelievers, members of other religions, and members of Christian sects that interpret the 10 commandments in widely different ways from Judge Moore are constituents of his judicial office, this is a dangerous and wholly undemocratic position to take.
The real question should be why do fundamentalist Christians want to impose the 10 commandments on their fellow citizens? Could it be due to the fact that some Christians have failed to persuade their fellow citizens to enact or uphold laws that are in agreement with their strict and narrow beliefs? I think so. Turning to religion, lawmakers and judges can forego arguments, disregard rationality, and impose their own will. All without recourse, because after all, the Bible said it.
This is why some of us patriots refuse to follow the crowd calling for a return to complete Judeo-Christian law in this country. We are not your enemies, we are not anti-Christian; far from it. We simply don't believe what you believe, and we feel law should be formed in the open, based on argument.
20
posted on
09/01/2003 1:05:19 AM PDT
by
risk
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