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To: Dataman
It seems a bit queer that an allegedly Jewish person can't (won't?) understand that.

YEs, but it is very deceptive to try and trick Jews into conversion instead of an honest presentation and plea for their salvation. "Jews for Jesus" is no different from Scientology in its approach.

7 posted on 08/27/2003 2:13:01 PM PDT by montag813
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To: montag813
YEs, but it is very deceptive to try and trick Jews into conversion instead of an honest presentation and plea for their salvation. "Jews for Jesus" is no different from Scientology in its approach.

You've got to be kidding. There is no need to trick anyone into belief. Leave that to evolutionists and cults. JFJ is legit, and Jay Sekulow vouches for them.

13 posted on 08/27/2003 2:17:11 PM PDT by Dataman
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To: montag813
YEs, but it is very deceptive to try and trick Jews into conversion

Oh for goodness sake. How can one be "tricked" into conversion since conversion requires an understanding and an acceptance of the salvation brought to the world by Jesus Christ. You can't become a Christian except by accepting Christ.

24 posted on 08/27/2003 2:32:44 PM PDT by pgkdan
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To: montag813
"it is very deceptive to try and trick Jews into conversion instead of an honest presentation and plea for their salvation. "Jews for Jesus" is no different from Scientology in its approach."

Could you please walk us through one of these "deceptive" tricking of Jews "into conversion" episodes? I'd be very interested to know how this works. All the Jews for Jesus I've met are bluntly up-front about their beliefs.

[Disclaimer: I am, by marriage, related to one who could be considered a Jew for Jesus, as she worked as a volunteer for that organization for a summer]

27 posted on 08/27/2003 2:34:44 PM PDT by cookcounty
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To: montag813
Jews for Jesus" is no different from Scientology in its approach.

Have you ever looked at the methods of Jews for Jesus? Go to their web site. There is no indicaction of the deception you claim. It is very clearly stated that Jesus is the focus of their ministry. There is not a hint that Judaism is what they are pointing at!

61 posted on 08/27/2003 3:24:05 PM PDT by LiteKeeper
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To: montag813
"YEs, but it is very deceptive to try and trick Jews into conversion instead of an honest presentation and plea for their salvation. "Jews for Jesus" is no different from Scientology in its approach."

How is it trickery? Jews have an ethnic history and a traditional history that comes by right of birth. It is not fair to say that a Jew that converts to Christianity is no longer a Jew. In fact if you define Jews by the traditional Jewish religion, many Jews are not Jews at all, because many of them are atheist. They have completely lost their faith in God.

They don't understand why God has allowed 2000 years of exile or things like the holocaust to occur. So they assume that He doesn't exist, instead of realizing that they failed to listen to the ancient Jewish prophets when they told them about Jesus. And that failure put them in serious breach of their covenant with God and in serious breach of the commands given by Moses.

77 posted on 08/27/2003 4:53:37 PM PDT by DannyTN (Note left on my door by a pack of neighborhood dogs.)
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To: montag813
"YEs, but it is very deceptive to try and trick Jews into conversion instead of an honest presentation and plea for their salvation. "Jews for Jesus" is no different from Scientology in its approach."

Has it changed its approach in the last few years? It used to be that all they did was stand on street corners and hand out leaflets that explained how Jesus fulfilled the Jewish prophecies of a Messiah. They answered questions, and put up with a lot of abuse from people who didn't understand what they were doing. They were accused of being "traitors" to their Jewishness.

But, if I recall correctly, Jesus was a Jew, preached and taught to Jews, lived in a Jewish world, read the Torah in Jewish synagogues, and died as a Jew.

87 posted on 08/27/2003 5:48:05 PM PDT by redhead
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To: montag813
YEs, but it is very deceptive to try and trick Jews into conversion instead of an honest presentation and plea for their salvation. "Jews for Jesus" is no different from Scientology in its approach.

You're assuming the conclusion. There is nothing deceptive about Jews for Jesus. There is something deceptive about being a Jew and not being for Jesus. The sceptre passed from Judah nearly two thousand years ago, so either the Messiah was Jesus or he never came, and Jews should disband their religion as having been based on false prophecies of a messiah who never came. The only way a person can continue to be a Jew is to believe that the Messiah did come when the prophet Daniel predicted, and the only conceivable candidate for messiahship at that time was Jesus.

103 posted on 08/27/2003 7:50:41 PM PDT by JoeSchem
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To: montag813
YEs, but it is very deceptive to try and trick Jews into conversion instead of an honest presentation and plea for their salvation.

What is deceptive about it? They say openly for whom they are and what are their beliefs. I would say that progressive Episcopalians or liberal Reform Jews are deceptive, they claim to be religious and they promote libertinism.

One flaw of Jews for Jesus is that they are simply Protestants and they are not aware of it.

200 posted on 08/28/2003 8:52:08 AM PDT by A. Pole
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To: montag813
"YEs, but it is very deceptive to try and trick Jews into conversion instead of an honest presentation and plea for their salvation."

Please tell us how they are trying to 'trick' anyone. I'd like some specific examples if you can provide them.

241 posted on 08/28/2003 11:35:02 AM PDT by MEGoody
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To: montag813
My cousin was active in this movement for a while and, at least for her, the motivation was not proseletizing and converting Jews to Christianity but to herself become a "better" Christian by adhering to Jewish ritual and law (dietary and otherwise). She was a Christian who moved toward Judaism rather than the reverse, and for a Jew who comes to accept Jesus as the Messiah the motivations and conduct toward their fellow Jews are no doubt very different.
250 posted on 08/28/2003 11:59:14 AM PDT by katana
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