[MarkL]

The Apostles were Jews. They were Jews for Jesus. The early Church was mostly Jewish. They were Jews for Jesus.

It seems a bit queer that an allegedly Jewish person can't (won't?) understand that.

No disrespect is intended, but can one be Christian without acknoledging the divinity of Jesus? Or if one rejects that belief? When one disregards the main tennant of faith, one is no longer an adherant to that faith.

One of the main tennants of Judism is that the messiah has not come, and we're still waiting for that event. When one acknowledges that Jesus is the messiah, then that person has abandoned his faith for another. I'm not saying that it's right or wrong. Just stating a fact.

It doesn't matter what one was before the acceptance of a set of beliefs in a faith. What matters is what one is now...

Mark

[Dataman]

One of the main tennants of Judism is that the messiah has not come, and we're still waiting for that event. When one acknowledges that Jesus is the messiah, then that person has abandoned his faith for another. I'm not saying that it's right or wrong. Just stating a fact.

Is "Jew" only a religion? If I am a German pagan and convert to Christianity, am I no longer a German?

[Toonces T. Cat]

"When one acknowledges that Jesus is the messiah, then that person has abandoned his faith for another."

Sorry Mark, but you're wrong...I have not stopped being a Jew by accepting Christ as my savior. That is not conjecture. It is a simple fact. I attend a Baptist church, but that doesn't mean that I never darken the door of synagogue. It also doesn't mean that I have ceased my prayers or in any other way discarded my heritage.

-Toonces

[Hegemony Cricket]

Great questions - I think the central issue here is the question that "lews" asked "yonif" above in post #15. You seem to be leaning toward defining "being Jewish" by belief or practice. I think many others are defining it by ethnic heritage. I guess there will always be a dichotomy between the two, and your answer to that question will more than likely determine your reaction to JFJ.

[Steve_Seattle]

"One of the main tennants of Judism is that the messiah has not come, and we're still waiting for that event. When one acknowledges that Jesus is the messiah, then that person has abandoned his faith for another. I'm not saying that it's right or wrong. Just stating a fact."

Who in Judaism officially decides who the messiah is? Over the centuries, there have been numerous men (e.g., bar Kochba) other than Jesus who were proclaimed by their followers to be the Messiah. Were these people not Jews either? I've never heard any Jews say that the followers of bar Kochba ceased to be Jews because of that fact.

[cookcounty]

"One of the main tennants [sic] of Judism is that the messiah has not come, and we're still waiting for that event. When one acknowledges that Jesus is the messiah, then that person has abandoned his faith for another.

In the second century, Rabbi Akiba, one of the great sages of rabbinical tradition, proclaimed Simon bar Kochba to be the Messiah. ----Did Akiba cease to be Jewish?

An odd and interesting sidebar to the Akiba / bar Kochba revolt is the fact that Jewish followers of Jesus were isolated from the main body of Jews not all at once, but step-by-step. When Akiba proclaimed bar Kochba the Messiah, the Jewish Christians (or whatever you'd like to call them) were further alienated from the rest of the Jewish community because they refused to accept a false messiah.

The Jewish followers of Jesus continued as a recognizable group until shortly after the Council of Nicea in the 4th century, when the Council ordered that they should no longer be allowed to observe Passover.

Many of these early "Jews for Jesus" could not bring themselves to accept the divinity of Jesus and the "Trinity." Others managed to find enough room within the term "echad" for a "collective unity" which harmonizes with the concept of the Trinity, (3 persons, one indivisible essence).

[AnalogReigns]

One of the main tennants of Judism is that the messiah has not come, and we're still waiting for that event.

Not to be contentious, but just where is it written in what Jewish people universally acknowlege as God's inspired word, the Torah, that one must believe that the Messiah has not yet come? The Torah was complete long before Jesus came--just what if, what if--Jewish leaders and rabbis then and since were wrong about Jesus???

Certainly its clear that Christianity was originally a Jewish sect, started and originally organized by Jews (with only 2 of the 27 books of the New Testament being written by a Gentile) which was disowned by the Jewish leadership of the time... Why do certain rabbis then (and now) get to define what Judaism is exactly?

The ironic thing is many Jewish people profess no faith at all--being either agnostic or openly atheist--yet the ONLY ones loudly decried by the Orthodox as NOT being Jewish are those who follow a particular humble Jewish carpenter....

[TheOtherOne]

It doesn't matter what one was before the acceptance of a set of beliefs in a faith. What matters is what one is now...

Bingo. They should be called, "I used to be a Jew, now I'm for Jesus"

[keats5]

"One of the main tennants of Judism is that the messiah has not come, and we're still waiting for that event. When one acknowledges that Jesus is the messiah, then that person has abandoned his faith for another."

But what if Jesus Is Messiah? Would Jews then cease to be Jews if they then believed?

[ArGee]

One of the main tennants of Judism is that the messiah has not come, and we're still waiting for that event.

Mark, please correct me if I am wrong, but I thought Jewishness had to do with observance of Torah. I am unaware of any Messianic prophecies in Torah, except that there would one day be a Prophet like Moses.

Is the coming Messiah truly a main tennant of Judaism or merely a side belief?

Shalom.