Posted on 08/27/2003 11:33:41 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
Several Freepers are engaged in a research project to evaluate whether the book of astronomy in 1 Enoch gives the modern day reader any clues concerning its authenticity. Perhaps you would like to participate in the research or keep tabs with the progress as we move along. Enoch is quoted directly in the book of Jude and about 100 passages in the New Testament are rooted in the 1 Enoch phrasing. Why is the authenticity of Enoch relevant to Christians today?
But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, [even] to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased. - Daniel 12:4
Obviously we are in a time of unprecedented knowledge and travel, thus many have been curious whether the hidden text mentioned in Daniel has already been revealed to any extent. Some have proposed that the Bible Code (Equidistant Letter Sequence) is the hidden text mentioned in Daniel. So far I believe the search has been limited to a simple matrix but there was some talk of looking for any patterns in a holographic. As I recall, Newton suspected there was a code in the Pentateuch. Still others have mentioned the book of Enoch which was rediscovered in 1773 in Ethopia and further authenticated by copies found at Qumran (Dead Sea Scrolls). Enoch begins:
The blessing of Enoch; with which he blessed the elect and the righteous who would be present on the day of tribulation at (the time of) the removal of all the ungodly ones. And Enoch, the blessed and righteous man of the Lord, took up (his parable) while his eyes were open and he saw, and said "(This is) a holy vision from the heavens which the angels showed me; and I heard from them everything and I understood. I look not for this generation but for the distant one that is coming. I speak about the elect ones and concerning them. (The Old Testament Pseudepigrapha, Volume I, 1 Enoch) Chaps. 72-82 The Astronomical Book, like the Book of Watchers, may date from the third century BCE; the oldest copy of it seems to have been made not long after 200 BCE. Sizable portions of the text are preserved on four copies, written in Aramaic, from Qumran cave 4. The Aramaic original appears to have been much different and much longer than the Ethiopic text, adding far more astronomical details." - James C. Vanderkam
At one time Enoch was considered Scripture but it fell into disfavor. I pulled the following excerpt from this link a few years back:
The Book of Enoch (also known as 1 Enoch) was once cherished by Jews and Christians alike, this book later fell into disfavor with powerful theologians–precisely because of its controversial statements on the nature and deeds of the fallen angels… The theme of the Book of Enoch dealing with the nature and deeds of the fallen angels so infuriated the later Church fathers that one, Filastrius, actually condemned it openly as heresy (Filastrius, Liber de Haeresibus, no. 108). Nor did the rabbis deign to give credence to the book’s teaching about angels. Rabbi Simeon ben Jochai in the second century A.D. pronounced a curse upon those who believed it (Delitzsch, p. 223). So the book was denounced, banned, cursed, no doubt burned and shredded–and last but not least, lost (and conveniently forgotten) for a thousand years. But with an uncanny persistence, the Book of Enoch found its way back into circulation two centuries ago. In 1773, rumors of a surviving copy of the book drew Scottish explorer James Bruce to distant Ethiopia. True to hearsay, the Book of Enoch had been preserved by the Ethiopic church, which put it right alongside the other books of the Bible… Though it was once believed to be post-Christian (the similarities to Christian terminology and teaching are striking), recent discoveries of copies of the book among the Dead Sea Scrolls found at Qumran prove that the book was in existence before the time of Jesus Christ. But the date of the original writing upon which the second century B.C. Qumran copies were based is shrouded in obscurity. It is, in a word, old… There is abundant proof that Christ approved of the Book of Enoch. Over a hundred phrases in the New Testament find precedents in the Book of Enoch. Another remarkable bit of evidence for the early Christians’ acceptance of the Book of Enoch was for many years buried under the King James Bible’s mistranslation of Luke 9:35, describing the transfiguration of Christ: "And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, ‘This is my beloved Son: hear him." Apparently the translator here wished to make this verse agree with a similar verse in Matthew and Mark. But Luke’s verse in the original Greek reads: "This is my Son, the Elect One (from the Greek ho eklelegmenos, lit., "the elect one"): hear him." The "Elect One" is a most significant term (found fourteen times) in the Book of Enoch. If the book was indeed known to the apostles of Christ, with its abundant descriptions of the Elect One who should "sit upon the throne of glory" and the Elect One who should "dwell in the midst of them," then the great scriptural authenticity is accorded to the Book of Enoch when the "voice out of the cloud" tells the apostles, "This is my Son, the Elect One"–the one promised in the Book of Enoch. The Book of Jude tells us in vs. 14 that "Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied…" Jude also, in vs. 15, makes a direct reference to the Book of Enoch (2:1), where he writes, "to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly…" … Many of the early church fathers also supported the Enochian writings. Justin Martyr ascribed all evil to demons whom he alleged to be the offspring of the angels who fell through lust for women (from the Ibid.)–directly referencing the Enochian writings. Athenagoras, writing in his work called Legatio in about 170 A.D., regards Enoch as a true prophet. He describes the angels which "violated both their own nature and their office." In his writings, he goes into detail about the nature of fallen angels and the cause of their fall, which comes directly from the Enochian writings. Many other church fathers: Tatian (110-172); Irenaeus, Bishop of Lyons (115-185); Clement of Alexandria (150-220); Tertullian (160-230); Origen (186-255); Lactantius (260-330); in addition to: Methodius of Philippi, Minucius Felix, Commodianus, and Ambrose of Milanalso–also approved of and supported the Enochian writings… One by one the arguments against the Book of Enoch fade away. The day may soon arrive when the final complaints about the Book of Enoch’s lack of historicity and "late date" are also silenced by new evidence of the book’s real antiquity.
Here is a current day Jewish perspective on Enoch:
The oldest known Jewish work not included in the Bible is the Book of Enoch. This is a complex work, written in the third (or perhaps even the late fourth) century BCE, after the return from the Babylonian Exile and the establishment of the Second Jewish Commonwealth (6th-5th centuries BCE) and before the Maccabean revolt in 172 BCE. The oldest copies of the Book of Enoch, dating from the third century BCE, were discovered among the Dead Sea Scrolls (see below). The Dead Sea ScrollsBy Ayala Sussman and Ruth Peled The Qumran sect's origins are postulated by some scholars to be in the communities of the Hasidim, the pious anti-Hellenistic circles formed in the early days of the Maccabees. The Hasidim may have been the precursors of the Essenes, who were concerned about growing Hellenization and strove to abide by the Torah. Archeological and historical evidence indicates that Qumran was founded in the second half of the second century B.C.E., during the time of the Maccabean dynasty. A hiatus in the occupation of the site is linked to evidence of a huge earthquake. Qumran was abandoned about the time of the Roman incursion of 68 C.E., two years before the collapse of Jewish self-government in Judea and the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem in 70 C.E…. The historian Josephus relates the division of the Jews of the Second Temple period into three orders: the Sadducees, the Pharisees, and the Essenes. The Sadducees included mainly the priestly and aristocratic families; the Pharisees constituted the Jay circles; and the Essenes were a separatist group, part of which formed an ascetic monastic community that retreated to the wilderness. The exact political and religious affinities of each of these groups, as well as their development and interrelationships, are still relatively obscure and arc the source of widely disparate scholarly views.
Here is Tertullian’s explanation of why Enoch didn’t make it into the canon:
Early Church Father, Tertullian 155-160 CE The Book of Enoch & the Church Fathers Tertullian, for example, wrote, "I am aware that the Scripture of Enoch, which has assigned this order (of action) to angels, is not received by some, because it is not admitted into the Jewish canon either. I suppose they did not think that, having been published before the deluge, it could have safely survived that world-wide calamity, the abolisher of all things. If that is the reason (for rejecting it), let them recall to their memory that Noah, the survivor of the deluge, was the great-grandson of Enoch himself; and he, of course, had heard and remembered, from domestic renown and hereditary tradition, concerning his own great-grandfather's "grace in the sight of God," and concerning all his preachings; since Enoch had given no other charge to Methuselah than that he should hand on the knowledge of them to his posterity. Noah therefore, no doubt, might have succeeded in the trusteeship of (his) preaching; or, had the case been otherwise, he would not have been silent alike concerning the disposition (of things) made by God, his Preserver, and concerning the particular glory of his own house. "If (Noah) had not had this (conservative power) by so short a route, there would (still) be this (consideration) to warrant our assertion of (the genuineness of) this Scripture: he could equally have renewed it, under the Spirit's inspiration, after it had been destroyed by the violence of the deluge, as, after the destruction of Jerusalem by the Babylonian storming of it, every document of the Jewish literature is generally agreed to have been restored through Ezra. "But since Enoch in the same Scripture has preached likewise concerning the Lord, nothing at all must be rejected by us which pertains to us; and we read that "every Scripture suitable for edification is divinely inspired". By the Jews it may now seem to have been rejected for that (very) reason, just like all the other (portions) nearly which tell of Christ. Nor, of course, is this fact wonderful, that they did not receive some Scriptures which spake of Him whom even in person, speaking in their presence, they were not to receive. To these considerations is added the fact that Enoch possesses a testimony in the Apostle Jude."
An opinion from the Later Day Saints corner:
Modern scholars, beginning with Laurence, all date the origin of the book to the first or second century before Christ, hence it is assigned to the "pseudepigrapha," meaning it is not believed to have been written by the named author. It is dated using standard "scholarly" methods. One rule of dating used by modern scholars, is that if anything is prophesied which turns out to be correct, it must have been written after the event, because otherwise the author would really have to have been a prophet! This complete rejection of the entire concept of revelation forced Laurence to put the authorship of the Book of Enoch extremely late because he saw that it prophesied not only the existence of Parthia (250 B.C.), but even the reign of King Herod the Great, which began in 37 B.C. On the other hand, it was quoted by the Savior and his apostles so it must have been written before their time. Thus Laurence inferred that the book had been written "before the rise of Christianity; most probably at an early period of the reign of Herod."[8] More modern scholarship has concluded that the book was probably written by several authors over the period of about 180-64 B.C.[9] This extremely recent authorship date of course raises the question of how such a late forgery could have been so totally accepted as genuine in just a few decades, which has never been adequately explained. In this article, let us consider the outrageous possibility that the work was actually originally written by the prophet Enoch long before the Great Flood and contains many genuine revelations.[10] It probably also contains some interpolations of men, and has suffered from mistakes introduced by the many hand-made transcriptions. But for the purposes of this article, when it says that an angel revealed to Enoch a divine calendar, those statements will be taken at face value. One scientific way to test a hypothesis is to assume it is true and examine the consequences. Let us now apply that method to the astronomy contained in the Book of Enoch.
For our own counsel, we Freepers may be able to shed some light on the antiquity of Enoch by looking at the book of astronomy. 1 Enoch contains various statements about astronomy which are strangely accurate considering the known age of the manuscript and the language. Page 14 of the following article dates fragment 4Q208, which is from a Qumran copy of 1 Enoch in the book of astronomy section as paleographic age 200 B.C. and is carbon-dated, calibrated 166-102 BC and 186-92 BC.
Radiocarbon dating of scrolls and linen fragments (pdf)
To put it in context, the Essenes at Qumran were evidently piously anti-Hellenistic, which is to say they strongly resisted the influence of Greece – so much so they went into the wilderness. The other two main sects of Jews after they returned from Babylon were Pharisees and Sadducees. So, in terms of influence on the 1 Enoch book of astronomy – if it were a fabrication – the possible influences would include Babylonia and to a lesser extent Greece. Here are the strange observations concerning astronomy recorded in 1 Enoch:
That the light of the moon is a reflection from the sun: "Then Uriel showed me another order (concerning) when light is beamed into the moon, from which direction of the bright sun it is beamed." 1 Enoch 78:10
Research on the forum indicates that the earliest notion that the moon was reflecting light from the sun can be traced to Greece, ca 450 B.C. Anaxagores of Clazomenae. That date would be plenty early enough for an original from which the Qumran copy would be made. The counter point would be the anti-Hellenistic attitude of the Essenes, but then again, they may not have known the origin of the idea.
Orbits. We know that the moon orbits the sun and the sun orbits the Milky Way. It is very strange (to me) that Enoch would say: "They [sun and moon] do not depart from their orbit, neither increase or decrease it; but they keep faith one with another; in accordance with an oath they set and they rise." – 1 Enoch 41:5
Research on the forum shows the earliest notion of heliocentricity came from Greece - Aristarchus of Samos (fl 320-250 B.C.) but that his views were not prominently held until Ptolemy in 150 B.C.
The carbon-dating of 186 B.C. would have to be too old by at least 36 years and even so, the orbit information would need to migrate from Greece to an original Aramaic or Hebrew/Aramaic manuscript to Qumran to be copied to Aramaic. In the alternative, if the 1 Enoch is fake, then the author had to subscribe to the minority view of Aristarchus of Samos, thus not only being Hellenistic but extremely so.
That the sun and moon generate energy: "they do not economize (on energy), for their very essence generates new power." – 1 Enoch 41:7
If Enoch had seen a supernova from his heavenly travels, as testified in the manuscript, then he would describe it the way he did - the star explodes into light and cannot gather itself back into being the star. Research on the forum indicates the first observation of a supernova was in China in 4 B.C. but the cause of a supernova wasn’t understood until 1054 A.D. in Japan and China. Freeper Right Wing Professor suggested Enoch’s statement might have been a misinterpretation of a meteor (shooting star.) Further research indicates that the ancients in Egypt, Babylon, Assyria all tied meteor activity to omens and weather and knew that they fell to earth as iron, which they pursued. We have not yet found a hint that the ancients thought stars died or that they died by becoming "lightening." Ancient Astronomical Observations and in particular this page shows that it is difficult to separate astrology and astronomy in ancient literature.
Singularity? And then there is a reference to the end of all that there is (and beginning) which sounds like a singularity: in chapter 18 a place with no measure and no content, a pit "where the heavens come together." He records that the angel explained [v. 14] "this is the ultimate end of heaven and earth; it is the prison house for the stars and the powers of heaven…"
Alexander liberated Israel from the Persian empire around 300 BC and thus from that point forward, the Jews traveled freely in the Greek world and many became culturally Hellenized (paraphrased from a post by PatrickHenry.) There is a Scholar, Chris King, who believes Enoch is Hellenistic and that explains everything:
1 Enoch is an unmistakable product of Hellenistic civilization. A world view so encyclopaediac that it embraced the geography of heaven and earth, astronomy, meteorology, medicine was no part of Jewish tradition - but was familiar to educated Greeks, but attempting to emulate and surpass Greek wisdom, by having an integrating divine plan for destiny, elaborated through an angelic host with which Enoch is in communication through his mystical travels. - Chris King.
IOW, if 1 Enoch is a fake, at the minimum, the writer of Enoch must have been familiar with Greek philosophy. The main Jewish/Greek philosopher prior to 150 BC was Philo. And I believe he would have either written in Hebrew or Greek. The book of Enoch at Qumran was copied in Aramaic. Some scholars believe the original Enoch may have been a combination of Hebrew and Aramaic like the book of Daniel. Since the Essenes went into the wilderness to escape the Hellenization, the counter-point is whether they would have intentionally brought a Hellenized text with them. Or if they believed the text was "kosher" – then there are two significant counter-points: 1. The Jewish calendar is 360 days/year whereas the Enochian calendar calls for 364.
Enoch: a brief textual history The third Enochian book, the Book of Astronomy, is considered the oldest of those preserved, thought to have been written well before the second century. It contains a description of the structure of the universe as well as the details of a 364 day solar calendar, a calendar that seems to have been popular especially in the Dead Sea Scrolls although it is well supported by another pseudepigraphic book, Jubilees.
2. Enoch does not mention Moses specifically and contains no contextual reference to Jewish traditions present in typical pseudepigraphal manuscripts. If the book were written after Moses by a Jewish author, such would be expected because the Jewish traditions would be second nature. Indeed, a Slavonic version of the Enoch, 2 Enoch, is presumed to have been originally written in Greek because the phrasing gives away clues of both the Greek language and culture. In other words, if Enoch were authentic we would expect it to not include more than prophetic metaphoric references to Moses or Jewish law or Babylon, Greece, Rome, etc.
"One of the most remarkable features of 1 Enoch is that the law revealed to Moses on Mt. Sinai plays almost no part in it at all. It could be objected that it would be more surprising if it did have a role, since 1 Enoch is, of course, about Enoch who lived before the flood (see Gen 5:21-24) and thus long before the law was revealed. The argument would be that the authors of 1 Enoch were consistent about their pseudepigraphic attribution of the material to Enoch and therefore did not commit the anachronism of having him teach and obey the law of Moses. "But there is a flaw in that argument because at least two places in the book should mention the law revealed on Mt. Sinai. The two places are in the two principal apocalypses, the Apocalypse of Weeks and the Animal Apocalypse. Both of these revelations cover the period when Israel was in the wilderness and, according to the pentateuch, received the covenantal law." - James C. Vanderkam
One comment with regard to Vanderkam's comment: the Enochian Apocalypse of Weeks is a prophesy (forward looking) and thus, IMHO, would not contain more than it does:
93.1 And, after this, Enoch began to speak from the books: 93.2 And Enoch said: "Concerning the sons of righteousness, and concerning the chosen of the world, and concerning the plant of righteousness and uprightness, I will speak these things to you, and make them known to you, my children. I, Enoch, according to that which appeared to me in the Heavenly vision, and that which I know from the words of the Holy Angels, and understanding from the Tablets of Heaven." 93.3 And Enoch then began to speak from the books, and said: "I was born the seventh, in the first week, while justice and righteousness still lasted. 93.4 And, after me, in the second week, great injustice will arise, and deceit will have sprung up. And in it there will be the First End, and in it, a man will be saved. And after it has ended, iniquity will grow, and He will make a law for the sinners. 93.5 And after this in the third week, at its end, a man will be chosen as the Plant of Righteous Judgment, and after him will come the Plant of Righteousness, forever. 93.6 And after this, in the fourth week, at its end, visions of the righteous and Holy will be seen, and a Law for All Generations, and an enclosure will be made for them. 93.7 And after this, in the fifth week, at its end, a House of Glory and Sovereignty will be built forever. 93.8 And after this, in the sixth week, all those who live in it will be blinded. And the hearts of them all, lacking wisdom, will sink into impiety. And in it, a man will ascend, and at its end the House of Sovereignty will be burnt with fire. And in it the whole race of the chosen root will be scattered. 93.9 And after this, in the seventh week, an apostate generation will arise. And many will be its deeds - but all its deeds will be apostasy. 93.10 And at its end, the Chosen Righteous, from the Eternal Plant of Righteousness, will be chosen, to whom will be given sevenfold teaching, concerning his whole creation.
The other thing of course is that over a hundred phrases in the New Testament find precedence in Enoch and Enoch is quoted directly in Jude. So, to the New Testament - Enoch is authentic. The difficulty after 2,000 years is piecing together "the" Enoch. There are two other Enochs - one is Slavonic, 2 Enoch, and the other, 3 Enoch, is a Hebrew Apocalypse of that name written by Rabbi Ishmael in 132 A.D. (approx). Because of that date and known authorship, 3 Enoch isn't relevant to this project. 1 Enoch - is the oldest and most complete. It was first discovered in Ethiopia (in the Ge'ez language) where it had been preserved but was then confirmed by the finding of the 200 B.C. Aramaic copies at Qumran. 1 Enoch as found in Qumran is the best candidate for the one referenced by Jude. It is also the one with the most complete book of astronomy and thus gives us a window to date the original from which it was copied. 2 Enoch is also quite interesting, particularly in its prophesies concerning the 7,000 years allowed for Adamic man (including the 1,000 perfect era at the end.).
An entirely different Enoch manuscript has survived in the Slavonic language. This text, dubbed "2 Enoch" and commonly called "the Slavonic Enoch," was discovered in 1886 by a professor Sokolov in the archives of the Belgrade Public Library. It appears that just as the Ethiopic Enoch ("1 Enoch") had escaped the sixth-century Church suppression of Enoch texts in the Mediterranean area, so a Slavonic Enoch had survived far away, long after the originals from which it was copied were destroyed or hidden away. Specialists in the Enochian texts surmise that the missing original form which the Slavonic was copied was probably a Greek manuscript. This may have been, in turn, based on a Hebrew or Aramaic manuscript…. One of the most fascinating passages of the Slavonic Enoch is the account of the dramatization of eternity found in Chapter 33. As the world was made in six days, so its history would be accomplished in 6,000 years, and this would be followed by 1,000 years of rest, when the balance of conflicting moral forces has been struck and human life has reached the ideal state. (A reference of this conflict is also found in The War Scroll, a future battle between the Sons of Light and the Sons of Darkness. These writings were recently discovered in Qumran Cave 1, which are part of the collection of The Dead Sea Scrolls). At the close of this 7,000 year cycle would begin the 8th Eternal Day, when time should be no more…
Personally, I believe the 1000 year reign of Christ on physical earth (Revelation 20:2-3) is the seventh thousand referred to in 2 Enoch, because it precedes the eternal, new heaven and earth (Revelation 21.) However, Enoch – like Revelation – contains many metaphors and parables and is therefore particularly difficult to read.
Sadly, I did not renew my subscription to BAR. I hope it is on their website.
Freeper jam137 provided some background with reference to your question about the translation of the "Elect One" - his post is at post 77!
Enoch Calender Testifies of Christ, Part II
History and Info - Various Ancient Calendars
Look how Enoch lines up with other sources
The Tree of Knowledge
Enoch
Chapter 32
1 And after these fragrant odours, as I looked towards the north over the mountains I saw seven mountains full of choice nard and fragrant trees and cinnamon and pepper. 2 And thence I went over the summits of all these mountains, far towards the east of the earth, and passed above the Erythraean sea and went far from it, and passed over the angel Zotiel. And I came to the Garden of Righteousness, 3 I and from afar off trees more numerous than I these trees and great-two trees there, very great, beautiful, and glorious, and magnificent, and the tree of knowledge, whose holy fruit they eat and know great wisdom. 4 That tree is in height like the fir, and its leaves are like (those of) the Carob tree: and its fruit 5 is like the clusters of the vine, very beautiful: and the fragrance of the tree penetrates afar. Then 6 I said: 'How beautiful is the tree, and how attractive is its look!' Then Raphael the holy angel, who was with me, answered me and said: 'This is the tree of wisdom, of which thy father old (in years) and thy aged mother, who were before thee, have eaten, and they learnt wisdom and their eyes were opened, and they knew that they were naked and they were driven out of the garden.'
http://wesley.nnu.edu/noncanon/ot/pseudo/enoch.htm
Why was it forbidden for Adam and Eve to eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil and here they are allowed?
Excerpt from: Sha'are Orah, Gates of Light
The one who understands these great allusions which apply to Adam eating of the Tree of Knowledge during a period when the tree was ARLA will know why the tree is known as he Tree of Knowledge, and why it is called "of Good and Evil." It would have been possible for the tree to be called "Good and not Evil" if the Tree of Life had connected to the Tree of Knowledge instead of the entity known as ARLA; thus it is written: "She makes good and not evil for him all the days of his life." Now see the great power of Israel when it acts under the command of God, may He be Blessed. He commanded Adam that he should wait a moment and not eat from the ARLA and he could not do it. He commanded Israel to wait three years and they did so, thus it is written:
"You shall have three years when you will not eat AReLim." Leviticus 19:24
Let me intimate. "For the tree is good for eating." "And you planted all the food-bearing trees." "You shall regard is fruit as ARLA." "And she took from its fruit." "Three years shall it be ARLA for you" - these represent the three walls of ARLA. "The fourth year should be set aside for sacred jubilation" - the fourth wall is thin."...and the fifth year you shall eat of its fruit"
If Adam had waited to eat of the fruit when it stood in the place that stands with the essence of that which is called the fifth, they would have never been brought to the abyss. Know that that one who understands the essence of the fourth and fifth years which are mentioned in chapters dealing with ARLA will understand the essence of what it means for ARLA to be attached to the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, and the essence of this separation from it through the fifth.
The Land of Dan
Chapter 13
Then I wrote out their petition, and the prayer in regard to their spirits and their deeds individually and in regard to their 7 requests that they should have forgiveness and length.
And I went off and sat down at the waters of Dan, in the land of Dan, to the south of the west of Hermon: I read their petition till I fell 8 asleep.
Genesis 14
14 When Abram heard that his relative had been taken captive, he called out the 318 trained men born in his household and went in pursuit as far as Dan. 15 During the night Abram divided his men to attack them and he routed them, pursuing them as far as Hobah, north of Damascus.
Note: The land was allotted to Dan (way) before he was born.
Pesach (Passover)
Genesis 18
1 And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;
2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,
3 And said, My LORD, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:
4 Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree:
5 And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant. And they said, So do, as thou hast said.
6 And Abraham hastened into the tent unto Sarah, and said, Make ready quickly three measures of fine meal, knead it, and make cakes upon the hearth.
Make ready quickly...three measures of fine meal, knead it, and make cakes
Why is Abraham giving cooking lessons to Sarah?
Later that same day...
Genesis 19
1 And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;
2 And he said, Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your servant's house, and tarry all night, and wash your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways. And they said, Nay; but we will abide in the street all night.
3 And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned in unto him, and entered into his house; and he made them a feast, and did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat.
They were observing Pesach. They were also the only ones to get out of Sodom alive.
For more info see Parshat Bo
360 day years/time frame in Daniel and Revelation
Daniel 7:25
And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
Daniel 12:7
And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.
Revelation 11
1 I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, "Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, and count the worshipers there. 2 But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months. 3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth." 4 These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth.
42 months = 3.5 years
1260 = 360 x 3.5
Revelation 12:14
And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
...and it goes on and on and on...
Actually...**No..
And...ARLA...AR e LiM..is really serious business..or as the Jamaicans say...
"Truly Dread Mon.... Truly Dread".
Hebrew words have root meanings..with motion/possesion attachment.
Then it gets REDACTL....like Enochs comment about the *Fallen Angels...who descended in the days of Jared.
ie..Jared,,[Yahred]..means to come down from above.
back to Arelim...were do we see Arelim in scripture?
***EVERYWHERE...!!
Yechezkel 32 518 Orthodox Jewish Bible
22| Ashur (Assyria) is there and all her kahal; his kevarim are about him; all of them slain, fallen by the cherev;
|23| Whose kevarim are set in the recesses of the bor (pit), and her kahal (company) is all around her kevurah; all of them slain, fallen by the cherev, which caused terror in Eretz Chayyim.
|24| There is Elam and all her multitude around her kevurah, all of them slain, fallen by the cherev, which are gone down *arelim (uncircum- cised) into the lower parts of ha'aretz, which caused their terror in Eretz Chayyim; yet have they borne their shame with them that go down to the bor (pit).
|25| They have set her a mishkav (bed) in the midst of the slain with all her multitude; her kevarim are all around him; all of them *arelim (uncircumcised), slain by the cherev; for they spread terror in Eretz Chayyim, yet have they borne their shame with them that go down to the bor (pit); he is put in the midst of them that are slain.
|26| There is Meshech, Tuval, and all her multitude; her kevarim are all around him; all of them *arelim (uncircum- cised), slain by the cherev, though they caused their terror in Eretz Chayyim.
|27| And they shall not lie with the gibborim that are fallen of the *arelim (uncircumcised), which are gone down to Sheol with their weapons of milchamah; and they have laid their charavot (swords) under their heads, but their avonot shall be upon their atzmot, though they were the terror of the gibborim in Eretz Chayyim.
|28| Indeed, thou shalt be broken in the midst of the *arelim (uncircumcised), and shalt lie with them.
where else does **Arelim appear?
Arelim is also a name for mankind..alligned with the *Fallen Angels..or
SEEN as...equal to ..the rebellious Angels.
The term (Uncircumcised)..means..*Out of the covenant..cut off...fineto!
Fallen Angels....Fineto!
Mankind..who follows after...turns the way of ...the *Fallen Angels..
Uncircumcised....cut off from the Lords Realm.
This is why the wording..of Cast down with the UNcircumcised..
sort of.."Your going to go ..just like them*[Fallen Angels]..Appears in the Hebrew
The story of the Fallen Angels....Satan ..and the Garden.
Mans judgement does not preceed the *Fallen Angels.
Mankind is weighed in the balances..and assayed.
Mankinds Judgement...and the Fall of the Angels...are entwined.
I wonder if there is some subtlety in the canon using a 360 day year whereas Enoch uses a 364 day year. It is my belief that the tribulation described in Revelation completes the punishment of God which was largely satisfied by the banishment to Babylon. As one scholar noted, it is very strange for a pseudepigraphal work to not mention either Moses or Jewish tradition – and yet the Essenes were anti-Hellenistic. Taken together, I wonder if these facts underscore the beginning blessing where Enoch indicates his message is looking forward to the “elect ones” – i.e. Christians.
Daniel 2
17Then Daniel went to his house, and made the decision known to Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah, his companions, 18that they might seek mercies from the God of heaven concerning this secret, so that Daniel and his companions might not perish with the rest of the wise men of Babylon. 19Then the secret was revealed to Daniel in a night vision. So Daniel blessed the God of heaven.
20Daniel answered and said:
"Blessed be the name of God forever and ever,
For wisdom and might are His.
21And He changes the times and the seasons;
He removes kings and raises up kings;
He gives wisdom to the wise
And knowledge to those who have understanding.
22He reveals deep and secret things;
He knows what is in the darkness,
And light dwells with Him.
23"I thank You and praise You,
O God of my fathers;
You have given me wisdom and might,
And have now made known to me what we asked of You,
For You have made known to us the king's demand."
If you ask for an egg, you won't get a stone!
Hebrew - English translations are paramount. I have Hebrew English translations from Genesis 1 to Revelation 22. And yes, the New Testament was originally written in Hebrew.
'The vast majority of the scrolls were Hebrew texts. About one out of six were Aramaic. A small minority of the scrolls were written in Greek.'
The Dead Sea Scrolls, A New Translation
Michael Wise
Greek is dead, Long live Hebrew!
Indeed, there will be more added to the thread as we go along. I know of several Freepers who are researching this subject and will have things to post. I'm sure I will too. And I welcome anything you might have as well!
I just discovered the Book of Enoch as a result of my daily Mass readings (one of those 100 reference points of the New Testament). An online search found a text. A simple FR search found your thread and your analysis/discussion/research. FASCINATING. Much to consider. How's your research coming?
Let me also point out that your thread is now officially into 2005.
The research has been somewhat dormant - mostly because of the translations.
The latest translation is the one in Charlesworth's Pseudepigrapha collection. On last account, none of the ones available on the internet had all the latest information, footnotes, etc.
That makes it a bit difficult to discuss as a group on the forum. Nevertheless, I'd be very much interested in hearing whatever you find. And if you are wondering how a passage online compares with the Charlesworth collection, I'll be glad to look it up for you!
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