Day Before 10 Commandments D-Day: Ambassadore Keyes on Hannity

[ninenot]

And ol' ChanPalp is pretty good at Catholic-bashing, too--even though he claims to have been raised Catholic.

He's an attorney. Maybe that's the explanation.

[ninenot]

just imagine a FReeper who found himself being judged in a courtroom festooned with "HILLARY FOR PRESIDENT" posters.

Your argument is not on point.

Frankly, I don't go into a courtroom as plaintiff or defendant to observe the decorating scheme.

I go to secure justice.

I don't care if the judge is HRC herself---so long as the verdict is just. And there are appellate courts if necessary.

If decoration is your thing, maybe you should watch Trading Spaces.

[fly_so_free]

"Those opposing this display of the Ten Commandments are being deceptive in that they wish folks to believe that the display is out of the norm" Exactly. They are trying to further their goal of removing every reference to God in America. See this story http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/925945/posts Read the posts too. They were successful here unfortunately. Now they are back again to have another Ten Commandments display removed. This is only the beginning of what they want to do. They are the ones who are out of order, in their attacks on our religious heritage. Can you display a Nativity scene without fear? Can a Graduate mention God at his/her commencement without being sued? Can you say "Merry Christams" in public? There was a time , not so long ago, when you could do all these things without fear of retribution, but not in today's America. How did we get to this point? Tell the Anti-God people: "No more, enough." God Bless and protect those who are standing up. Pray the day doesn't come, here in the U.S.A where we have to deal with this: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/938379/posts

[DanTheAdmin]

"According to Lord Myron, Judge Moore hid a secret invisible bible in the monument which subliminally harms atheists who walk near it."

I actually did laugh out loud at this one!

These Judge Moore threads are depressing... there must be DU operatives on FR... at least I hope that's the case.

[azhenfud]

"Frankly, I don't go into a courtroom as plaintiff or defendant to observe the decorating scheme.

I go to secure justice."

I would rather enter a courtroom guilty as charged knowing the judge respects those Ten Commandments than to enter a courtroom innocent which was presided over by a judge and jurors who have disdain for the Ten....

[NutCrackerBoy]

the real smoking gun is the rejection of other points of view described in Msg#86.

I find that post to be rambling and it buys into the whole incorrect Constitutional interpretation that I join in rejecting.

I don't know why Matchett-PI told Luis Gonzales You're right in Post #87 . In Post #86 Matchett-PI eloquently lays out how the moral basis of the Constitution and therefore the US can be Judeo-Christian while simultaneously promising religious liberty.

Luis Gonzales #86: Moore is unabashedly promoting Christianity above all others, and he is the law in Alabama. You can't expect government to stay away from religion, if religion continues to try and conduct government.

It isn't promotion for a court, or a Congressional body, to state its desire to be true to and gather strength from a moral code.

[Tribune7]

He picked a fight with the ACLU. . .

That's a good thing. In fact, he may be the only judge doing this and it very much has to be done.

[Tribune7]

there must be DU operatives on FR

Some of the them are Randians but the names I've never seen before I wonder about despite the venerable "member since" dates.

[Chancellor Palpatine]

She was right at one time, but not anymore.

The Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church in Ft. Lauderdale is a pretty good sized edifice, taking in 19.6 million annually, of which 750K is spent on fundraising. Their affiliated media outlet brings in over 37 million, of which 3 million is spent on fundraising. Those fundraising percentages are on the high side.

Kennedy himself has strayed off into the territory of preaching about a notion of the "Christian Zodiac", a definite heresy, and has apparently been dabbling in "Bible Codes" as well. As for his connections with the reprehensible Crouches of TBN, the connections run very deep, and include him pimping his astrology book as a love gift for a donation, making griftathon appearances on the set of TBN, and providing his pulpit at Coral Ridge as a platform for Paul and Jan Crouch. See criticisms by Hank Hanegraaf.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings.

[Miss Marple]

Hmmm. I think I will do some research myself. I haven't paid attention to the Crouches for the last few years, since we got a satellite dish. Once in a while when I was up late theirs was the only show on and I used to use it for background noise (although occasionally they had good guest musicians).

If that is true about Kennedy I am quite disppointed to hear it. Methinks maybe television has a corrupting influence on an awful lot of pastors.

[Diamond]

Moore's stance is that he recognizes no power here on Earth

Dear Luis, what do you think an inalienable right is, if not something over which no power on earth has authority, and no right to abrogate?

...he will not obey the rule of law...

What do you mean by the "rule of law"? Anything a court says? If that were the case courts should be considered infallible in all their decisions, and would never be appealed or overruled.

...and will not observe the orderly legal process he swore to uphold.

As far as I know, he has appealed the order in a timely fashion to the Supreme Court. What about that is not observing the orderly legal process? My own opinion is that the Court that issued the order has no authority to issue such an order dealing with the erection of a monument in a State, and so such order is null and void. Just my two cents.

Cordially,

[NutCrackerBoy]

It isn't promotion for a court, or a Congressional body, to state its desire to be true to and gather strength from a moral code.

Since others could be influenced by seeing the monument, it is a small p promotion of a sort. That is clearly unrelated to the "establishment" which the federal government is constrained from in A1. Regarding the Constitution of the state of Alabama, see emphasis in the following. I gather that is the particular section which is questioned.

SECTION 3

Religious freedom.

That no religion shall be established by law; that no preference shall be given by law to any religious sect, society, denomination, or mode of worship; that no one shall be compelled by law to attend any place of worship; nor to pay any tithes, taxes, or other rate for building or repairing any place of worship, or for maintaining any minister or ministry; that no religious test shall be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under this state; and that the civil rights, privileges, and capacities of any citizen shall not be in any manner affected by his religious principles.

The nub of the matter is that giving preference should refer only to some substantive treatment, not to self-expression of those comprising government bodies.

[Diamond]

To your credit, one of the links you provided says this:

In the interest of simplicity, the criticism against the Gospel in the Stars (GIS) theory has been reduced to three points and answered as follows:

1.      GIS is a denial of the formal principle of the Protestant Reformation Sola Scriptura.  This is a misunderstanding not only of GIS, but also of Sola Scriptura.  With Sola Scriptura, the Reformers were protesting church traditions when they declared that the Bible alone was sufficient to make us wise unto salvation.  They never suggested that God’s creation played absolutely no part in the Gospel.  In fact, to suggest that God reveals himself by the things he has made is a blatant Scriptural notion found plainly in Romans 1 and Psalm 19 and taught clearly by Reformed theologians from John Calvin to B.B. Warfield.  It is called general revelation (creation) as opposed to special revelation (the Bible).  While general revelation is sufficient to pronounce guilt, it is not sufficient to produce salvation; that is the task of special revelation (the Bible).  Nowhere in the book or series of The Real Meaning of the Zodiac does Dr. Kennedy say otherwise.

2. GIS confuses special and general revelation.  Again, this is a misunderstanding of the definition and purpose of general and special revelation.  The universal guilt of mankind is revealed not only by Holy Scripture (Genesis 1-3) but also by the failure of man to acknowledge the revelation of God in His creation:

For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse (Romans 1:20 nkjv).

This is the role of general revelation.  Dr. Kennedy merely uses the constellations to point people to Christ.  This function is complimentary to both the Westminster Confession and the plain teaching of Scripture.

3. GIS pours superstitious meanings into the arrangement of the stars.  This is a mischaracterization of what Dr. Kennedy is saying.  To point out how the constellations point to elements in the biblical record is hardly what most Christians would call “superstitious.”  Even if you don’t agree with the GIS conclusions it by no means follows that such conclusions are “superstitious.”

In summary:  The notion that Dr. Kennedy is teaching heresy is ridiculous, at best, to even a casual observer of his ministry.  Aside from his earned theological degrees and his doctorate in comparative religions from New York University, he has also accrued 42 years of public teaching and 26 years of broadcast ministry.  He has earned a reputation for defending strict orthodoxy.  To be accused of “blasphemous heresy” shows both a lack of theological training and a gross misunderstanding of the actual contents of the book and series.

Dr. Kennedy urges those concerned about this matter to obtain a copy of the book and discover for themselves whether the message contained in The Real Meaning of the Zodiac is contrary to Scripture. After reading it, or listening to the messages on the audio series, if they believe it is in conflict with Scriptures, he welcomes comments and criticism in that regard. As he has stated:

If anybody finds something in these messages that is contrary to the Scriptures, I hope the first thing they will do will be to pick up a phone and give me a call, or write me a letter or e-mail, and tell me what it is in there that they think is contrary to the Bible, or is heretical. I have yet to have anybody show me anything in my book or my messages that is contrary to the Bible or heretical.

Dr. Kennedy has chosen to postpone the previously scheduled airing of The Real Meaning of the Zodiac series at this time.  The reason for this is primarily to take the requisite time and reflection to fashion a proper response.  As of now, the series will air at a future date, possibly with some direct responses of these criticisms from Dr. Kennedy.

Thank you for noting this change and the reasons for it.  We are immensely grateful for your standing with us during this totally unfounded personal attack on Dr. Kennedy.  You may be certain that we will attempt to resolve this matter according to Scriptural principles, and we will advise you when that has been successful.

Sincerely yours and His,

Tom Rogeberg
Executive Vice President
and Chief Operating Officer

You have accused Dr. Kennedy of "definite heresy". Back it up, or please desist.

Why do you say that that fundraising ratios are "on the high side"? What standard are you using to make that value judgment?

Cordially,

[votelife]

I was at the Saturday rally and it was awesome! So many faithful believers gathered, in defiance of liberal judicial tyranny. One speaker said there is darkness around Moore right now, but as in Genesis, darkness will get pushed out by the light (paraphrasing). Another speaker called Moore a "modern day Daniel." Moore spoke and he was incredible!

[Luis Gonzalez]

"...giving preference should refer only to some substantive treatment, not to self-expression of those comprising government bodies."

Government IS the sum total of those comprising government bodies, in this case, the Chief magistrate's ability to Judge impartially has been brought into question due to his own words and actions.

He has given anyone who will ever set foot in his courtroom who is not a Christian, reason to try and get the case dimissed.

I know that if I were a Muslim standing trial, I would challenge Moore's ability to remain impartial.

[Chancellor Palpatine]

By the rules of Orthodox Christianity to which I adhere (you would call it Greek Orthodox or Eastern Orthodox), the notion of Gospel in the Stars is complete heresy, and any theologian who espoused this could expect to be dismissed from his teaching post; and if he were a clergyman, would be relieved of pastoral duties and ould expect laicization in the near future. Regardless of what the shills say for Kennedy, those notions are not defensible from any historical understanding of Christian theology.

As for the ratios, I'd certainly expect that a religious entity would commit a smaller percentage of its total take to fundraising than does the United Way.

[votelife]

good post on Henry and company

[Luis Gonzalez]

Moore is the government, as such, he has no inalienable rights. If he wishes to carry on with this crusade, he needs to step down from his position.

"What do you mean by the "rule of law"? Anything a court says?"

When you are a member of that Court system, yes, I expect you to comply with the orderly process as proscribed in State's statutes.

"My own opinion is that the Court that issued the order has no authority to issue such an order dealing with the erection of a monument in a State, and so such order is null and void. Just my two cents."

In this case, the Chief Magistrate of the State Court is the defendant, the citizens who filed the charges need to have a venue to air their grievances. How far do you think they would have gotten filing the same complaint in Moore's Alabama Court system? r do you think that the citizens of Alabama have no venue and no recourse in this matter?

Scary thought.

[NutCrackerBoy]

Government IS the sum total of those comprising government bodies

I won't quibble. Moore posting the monument amounts to a self-expression of a government body. The government body known as Congress expresses its wish to be given strength by G*d before opening proceedings. You haven't addressed my distinction between self-expression and substantive treatment as regards giving preference.

He has given anyone who will ever set foot in his courtroom who is not a Christian, reason to try and get the case dimissed. I know that if I were a Muslim standing trial, I would challenge Moore's ability to remain impartial.

Hogwash. Religious freedom and impartiality are guaranteed by the Constitution. I'm sure you wouldn't say that government bodies must accomodate every foolish fear in the head of a Muslim standing trial (for example) no matter what the fear.

So it is incumbent upon you to explain why seeing the monument and understanding the idea behind it may inculcate a reasonable fear.

[moneyrunner]

Let’s see. The last time we saw you on these threads you were lying about the Fox report on what Judge Moore said, and accusing his supporters of profiting on a non-existent $125 million payoff.

Today it’s an ad homonym attack on Keyes.

You are one sick puppy.