So's the Neostead.
Posted on 08/07/2003 10:52:17 AM PDT by Long Cut
Caliber: 5.56x45 mm NATO
Action: Gas operated, rotating bolt
Overall length: no data
Barrel length: no data
Weight: 2.67 kg empty
Rate of fire: no data
Magazine capacity: 30 rounds (STANAG)
The development of the XM8 Lightweight Assault Rifle was initiated by US Army in the 2002, when contract was issued to the Alliant Techsystems Co of USA to study possibilities of development of kinetic energy part of the XM29 OICW weapon into separate lightweight assault rifle, which could, in the case of success, replace the aging M16A2 rifles and M4A1 carbines in US military service. According to the present plans, the XM8 should enter full production circa 2005, if not earlier, several years before the XM-29 OICW. The XM8 (M8 after its official adoption) should become a standard next generation US forces assault rifle. It will fire all standard 5.56mm NATO ammunition, and, to further decrease the load on the future infantrymen, a new type of 5.56mm ammunition is now being developed. This new ammunition will have composite cases, with brass bases and polymer walls, which will reduce weight of the complete ammunition, while maintaining compatibility with all 5.56mm NATO weapons. Along with 20% weight reduction in the XM8 (compared to the current issue M4A1 carbine), this will be a welcome move for any infantryman, already overloaded by protective, communications and other battle equipment.
The XM8 will be quite similar to the "KE" (kinetic energy) part of the XM-29 OICW system, being different mostly in having a telescoped plastic buttstock of adjustable length, and a detachable carrying handle with the Picatinny rail.
Technical description. The XM8 is a derivative of the Heckler-Koch G36 assault rifle, and thus it is almost similar to that rifle in design and functioning. The key differences are the NATO-standard magazine housing that will accept M16-type magazines, the set of Picatinny rails on the forend, telescoped buttstock of adjustable length and a different scope, mounted on the Picatinny rail, built into the detachable carrying handle.
The lanyard /sling hole in the bottom of the butt stock should be moved to the top of the butt to facilitate a better carry /ready position and delete the torque factors applied by the twisting and pulls that current sling arraingements have on the M4's, XM-177's and older GAU5A/AA SMG versions.
Make the furniture in camo patterns to preclude the need to "improvise" with paints that can emit "odors" in some environments. Make provisions for carrying a second ammunition magazine on the weapon in addition to the primary in the mag well.
Make use of the scandium and titanium and carbon fiber materials to "start" the weapons weight off at 4.5 pounds and with the addition of full magazine/s, grenade launcher and optics and sling brings the fully operational rig to under 7 pounds.
Whatever caliber is selected (243 or 223) keep a kinetic kill capability versus the attempt to make a 800 +/- meter max effective range heavier round. Drop the ball ammo requirements and use modern bullet designs with horrific stopping properties for MOUT and CQB. We can and have used hollowpoint ammo in the "terrorism" fight vs the declared war which seems to be a thing of the past these days.
The ball ammo was considered humane and also wounded the enemy to create a logistic nightmare of wounded troops to bleed the enemy that cared about their fellow soldiers with regards to moral and materials and POL supplies. The terroristic enemies we engage in the future in LIC missions have no concern for their troops and must be delt a death blow from the moment encountered IMHO.
BAYONET LUG............Psycological effect of fixed bayonets still has a place in modern "nation building" and FUBAR possibilities of logistic resupply going to wrong address.
That's my personal opinion of the new and improved.........:o)
Stay safe !
I fear, however, that we'll be stuck with the .223 round for the forseeable future, though, as it's NATO standard.
If they lose the carry handle (and I cannot for the life of me understand why it was included in the first place), I do hope it is replaced with good iron sights to back up the scope.
Time will tell, I suppose. I would be more comfortable if it was being made by a good, solid American arms company, like Winchester or Remington, or Springfield, however.
1. Somehow design the weapon to seal out the dirt and sand, at least whilst unloaded or with a mag in place;
2. Design the internals to reduce their sand-and-dirt sensitivity.
As for the cleaning issue, that's a training and mindset thing. I'm interested here in the actual weapon itself.
So, what are some ways to effect #'s 1 and 2 above?
When I was in desert shield / storm I carried a scoped M1A and a 1911A1 and never had a malfunction. The Shamal was cruel to us as some days you could not see yer hand. I am of the opinion and experience that attention to detail and taking care of ones tools of the trade are something that should not be taken lightly.
Troops that usually whined about their weapon malfunctions usually lied / cheated themselves with regards to keeping their weapons clean and applying any CLP product only to high wear contact surfaces sparingly versus spraying half a can of WD 40 down the receiver and barrel an calling it done.
On this new and improved M8 ?.......I'd really like to see some ceramic finishes on bearing surfaces for just such a reason. Zero POL product on a weapon that can attract sand dust and grime.
Right now, if I was NCOIC of the units having malfunctions en mass I would mandate supervised cleaning and inspections with addition of peer pressure . Having fired so many rounds that I had barrels glowing red hot with cookoffs I have had mechanical breakages but never a stoppage due to carbon build up or dirt with the amount of ammo that I carried as a basic load and 2 days resupply without cleaning.
Not to say I wasn't just lucky......or that it never happens even to guys who did care for their weapons properly. Just never experienced it during pucker factor modes.
Stay safe !!
Stay Safe !
OK I'll quit !.......Stay safe. (gettin any hot tub time in with the soft squeezy toy ?)
Just a few thoughts.
No doubt, those Soldiers there failed to properly clean their weapons in a combat zone, but then again, it's difficult to do this while on the move in such a storm. A clean weapon is dirty again in only a few minutes. What means could be designed in by the manufacturer to prevent a total failure under those circumstances?
It appears to have been much less a matter of the failure of the individual weapons than that of the unit's crew-served weapons not working when they needed them. That appears to have been a matter of three factors: rust on the gun mounts on the vehicles themselves, pretty unforgivable for a maintenance unit, combined with weapons in deplorable condition because their vehicles had been pulling other wheeled vehicles stuck in the sand out for some 14 hours previously, resulting in a frosting of sand and grit on everything, and some exhausted troops who had overlooked maintaining their heavy weapons, though some may have taken better care of their personal ones. And of course, they were hit in an ambush, surprised while emotionally and physically exhausted, not the best circumstances for combat arms troops, much less a support unit with limited warfighting capability.
Not all the fault was with their weapons, nor was it necessarily *just* one of leadership considering the taskings the unit had been given and had accomplished. But had things been done a little differently, they might well have come out better than they did, driving off their unsuccessful attackers and regrouping to treat their casualties with fewer or none of their own taken POW. That's the lesson for other support troops who figure it can't happen to them too, or at least likely won't. And indeed, for most of them, it won't, but that's little comfort for any who do reprise the same story.
Don't forget the eight who died to provide the object lesson: CWO Johnny Mata; Master Sgt Robert Dowdy; Sgt. Donald Walters; Sgt George Buggs; Spc. Kiehl; PFC Lori Piestewa; Pvt Reuben Estrella-Soto and Pvt. Brandon Sloan.
Mourn from them and regret their loss, but don't overlook or gloss over their errors, or they'll be repeated and the lesson they learned the harrd way will have to be brought home again.
We have less than 50,000 remaining in other than *Condition H* scrap in the national inventory, last time I checked. We've been passing them out to everyone from the Israelis, Colombians and Haitian customs guards, and the Marines had to cherrypick through Navy weapons to come up with enough rebuildable examples- 2000, I believe- for their recent DMR rifle program.
The Bausch and Lomb 10x works better for me; the coatings on its lenses appear to be better compatable with those wearing prescription lenses/glasses so far as reducing glare and mirage distortion effects at a distance. That's probably a matter of some difference between different users eyes, and it's probable that several alternate possibilities better suited to the individual shooter should be offered; the US Optics unit is at least one possibility, and there are those who really swear by the Shepherd scope as well.
Back in the days of the ART II/XM21 when I made my living with an M14, I had my choice of three to use, one with the Letaherwood Auto-ranging scope, one with a 2-7x variable, and one without a scope at all. I also tried out an Australian L1A1 with a 4x SUIT scope a couple of times, and found it very usable and acceptable for the mostly 200-400 meter ranges at which we got most of our shots; those with M16s could generally take care of those out to 200 okay once they settled down and shot like riflemen instead of hosing, and beyond that, artillery or CAS was usable if available; I'm certain I killed more people with my radio than I ever did with rifle fire, but we had artillery firebases well established in our AO and our cannoncockers were generally pretty good and enthusiastic about their work. I expect that designated marksmen working with M14s [or SVDs] today at the squad or platoon level whoul find things to be pretty much the same, with some local conditions affecting the distances involved, of course.
I did get out with an old scoped #4 Enfield more than once, and it worked just as advertised. But compatability with night sights/thermal viewers will be more of an issue in the future, and what's really needed is a day-night sight, or a rock-solid mount that allows switching as needed. I suspect that in the future, the work of both the DM and the hard-core sniper will be done at night.
-archy-/-
I wouldn't bet on that. With the exception of some of the US-built cheapies [those 55-round monstrosities in particular] AK magazines are about as reliable as it gets. They're developed, after all from that of the WWII Bren gun [look at the front pivots of an AK and BREN magazine, or the mag of the 7,92x57mm Czech ZB-26 from which the Bren was developed.
If I had to bet without seeing, I'd bet on a combination of lousy corrosive ammo and failure to clean the gas systems after previous shooting. I've seen that in AKs used by those who care for them haphazardly, as well as in many of the SKS-45 carbines owned by civilian shooters in the US. They're not particularly difficult weapons to maintain, but they do require at least a minimal amount of operator attention now and again.
-archy-/-
In that regard, what CAN be done to sandproof a rifle, at the design phase?
In that regard, what CAN be done to sandproof a rifle, at the design phase?
Okay. In those designs that use a bolt housed within a reciprocating carrier, like the FAL, M16 and AK, you want the ratio of weight of carrier to bolt to be as high as possible without going overboard; that provided enough force to overcome any resistance from foreign matter debris, fouling, or the two in combination.
Either turnbolt locking, as per the M16, AK and Garand/M14 or locking *flaps* or tabs as per the Russian Tokarev and DP machinegun, the British L86A2 and BAR appear workable. Internal *sand cuts* as on the British Commonwealth L1A1 versions of the FAL may help, though the Israelis considered adding them to their rifles as an afterthought and came to the conclusion that it wasn't worth the effort; their concern was limited to a single theater, of course, and the Brits still had a worldwide interest at that time [mid-1950s] of course; Austrralia was still using the WWI-issue Number One Mark Three S.M.L.E. and something a bit more modern was needed, though the old SMLE and Bren served quite well in Korea for the Diggers.
And note that the Bren and Australian Owen, Austen and F1 submachineguns used top-mounted magazines as per the Japanese Type 96 and 99 and the French Mle 24/29. This allows any sand or grit to fall downwards and pass through the action of the weapon as recoil and vibration shake it free inside the magazine during firing, and it can then fall free through the ejection port or be carried out as empty brass is ejected; this also allows draining of water from magazines taped up to avoid sand or mud collecting in the bottoms of them. Top mounted magazines also allow large magazine capacities without interfering with a good prone position, and allow easy changing of magazines or fitting large capacity drums. The downside is the requirement for offset sights, probably not a problem as electro/optical sights are becoming more and more a standard fixture: that goes on one side and an adjustable iron sight backup goes on the other; ideally, the operator gets to decide which one goes where.
And as on the Bren, L1A1 and Robinson Arms M96, it can be helpful if there's an adjustable gas system, allowing additional gas to keep things operating should fouling or debris be slowing things up, and offering adjustment to compensate for variations between different manufacturing lots of ammunition, particularly with those with very wide distribution and differing bullet weights and powder charges, as per 7,62 NATO and 9mm parabellum- [7,62x39mm M43 Russian AK ammo is pretty much the same no matter what its source, though there are variations of brass and steel-cased versions and light bullet *training loads*, so it can apply to an AK, too.
Tolerances and fitting should take their cues from the AK47 and M1911A1 pistol, both particularly praised for their reliability and dependability, and construction can involve either milled or stamped/pressed sheetmetal components or plastics, as used in the Austrian Glock pistols and AUG rifle and Spanish Parinco 3C submachinegun. But they should be designed into the system rather than evolve by happy circumstance of machine wear following massive production, or careful armourer assembly.
That's far from an all-inclusive list, but it could make for a good starting place.
-archy-/-
As to the shepard scope........think real hard about that trick. It's all gimmick IMHO. I can do the same with standard eliptical mildots on a "wizzbanganybrand" hunk of glass. I'm a no vote on that one. I have some Swarovski's, Kahles, Leupold and Burris , Unertl , and a very nice Weaver 6X with a reddish brown patina that was of limited civilian issue.....:o) I tend to stick to the Leupolds & Swarovski's for general hunting, The Burris , Kahles for target and varmint and the 10X unertl is working rig/truck gun now in retirement.
Just what works for me of course good or bad what I use.........BTW........Do you remember the nomenclature of the Leupold dangerous game scope ? I think it was a 1.5-6X or something close to that. If I can't find that data I am gonna call Mrs Stevens stepson and get answers.
Stay Safe Arch !
As for the cleaning issue, that's a training and mindset thing. I'm interested here in the actual weapon itself.
So, what are some ways to effect #'s 1 and 2 above?
Internal sand cuts, as mentioned in my response above, and as used in the British L1A1 version of the FAL and as helical cuts on the bolts of the L2A3 Patchett/Sterling 9mm SMG; similar *ribs* are seen in the external machinework of the rectangular bolts of the Israeli Uzi and the Ingram M10 and M11 SMG. Of questionable utility on some designs, but certainly usable on some. And more feasable nowadays with modern CNC machine tooling techniques, and even moreso on such injection molded plastic or investment cast components when designs call for such materials.
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