XM-8: New U.S. Service Rifle?

Modern Firearms and Ammunition website ^ | unknown | Unknown

[Long Cut]

Caliber: 5.56x45 mm NATO
Action: Gas operated, rotating bolt
Overall length: no data
Barrel length: no data
Weight: 2.67 kg empty
Rate of fire: no data
Magazine capacity: 30 rounds (STANAG)

The development of the XM8 Lightweight Assault Rifle was initiated by US Army in the 2002, when contract was issued to the Alliant Techsystems Co of USA to study possibilities of development of kinetic energy part of the XM29 OICW weapon into separate lightweight assault rifle, which could, in the case of success, replace the aging M16A2 rifles and M4A1 carbines in US military service. According to the present plans, the XM8 should enter full production circa 2005, if not earlier, several years before the XM-29 OICW. The XM8 (M8 after its official adoption) should become a standard next generation US forces assault rifle. It will fire all standard 5.56mm NATO ammunition, and, to further decrease the load on the future infantrymen, a new type of 5.56mm ammunition is now being developed. This new ammunition will have composite cases, with brass bases and polymer walls, which will reduce weight of the complete ammunition, while maintaining compatibility with all 5.56mm NATO weapons. Along with 20% weight reduction in the XM8 (compared to the current issue M4A1 carbine), this will be a welcome move for any infantryman, already overloaded by protective, communications and other battle equipment.

The XM8 will be quite similar to the "KE" (kinetic energy) part of the XM-29 OICW system, being different mostly in having a telescoped plastic buttstock of adjustable length, and a detachable carrying handle with the Picatinny rail.

Technical description. The XM8 is a derivative of the Heckler-Koch G36 assault rifle, and thus it is almost similar to that rifle in design and functioning. The key differences are the NATO-standard magazine housing that will accept M16-type magazines, the set of Picatinny rails on the forend, telescoped buttstock of adjustable length and a different scope, mounted on the Picatinny rail, built into the detachable carrying handle.

[Woahhs]

Its price looks to be $299.95, which looks DAMN good.

Ouch! Does it shoot any better than the hundred dollar model available at every damn gunstore in the country?

Course...it is kinda goodlooking!

[archy]

I don't care for the "Let's make something weird or "collectable"" from the Winchester or Colt companies. Adding a medallion or an odd barrel length doesn't do it for me.

Oh, very well. Here's something a tad more arcane for you.

Sorry I haven't found you an available Puckle Gun. Yet.

-archy-/-

[Shooter 2.5]

By the time it would take you to put the thing together, it would cost around 300. Sounds like a good deal.

[AFreeBird]

Just for the heck of it.

P90

5.7mm SUB-MACHINE GUN

Technical Data:

Operation: Blowback mechanism firing from closed breech

Overall Length: 19.7 in.

Width: 2.2 in.

Height with Optical Sight: 8.3 in.

Weight with Loaded Magazine: 6.6 lbs.

Magazine Capacity: 50 rds

Firing Modes: Single shot, full automatic

Cyclic Rate of Fire: 900 rpm

Maximum Effective Range: 200m

SS190 Ammunition:

Caliber: 5.7mm

Weight: 93 grains

Projectile Weight: 31 grains

Recoil Impulse: 0.44 lb/s

Muzzle Velocity: 2,346 fps

Perforation at 200m: Body Armor Kevlar >48 plies of Kevlar PASGT helmet

Accuracy with P90

(7.9 in.) (10 shots)

Suggested Price: (Law Enforcement agencies only- 5.7 x 28 caliber weapons are not available to the general public)

P90STD: $1,250
P90STD Auto: $1,350

Page last updated on: 03-07-2001

[archy]

It looks like a chromed Destroyer.

The Destroyers were rechambered Enfields in .308 with the funnel flashhider.

Well, no. The Destroyer was a 9mm Largo bolt-action with 6-round magazine, used by the Spanish Civil Guard and police, for those individuals deemed not to be trusted with a 9mm Star submachinegun for reasons of either political consideration or training requirements. Similarly, they weren't given a bolt-action rifle equal in power and range to the Army and Spanish Foreign Legion's M93 and M95 Mauser carbines in the excellent 7x57mm Mauser cartridge.

The Destroyer, generally reworked to a 9mm parabellum, but sometimes in the .38 ACP or .38 Super chambering, has sometimes been found with a silencer or sound suppressor fitted as an addition. So equipped, the only sound heard is that of the striker snapping forward, and that is sometimes muffled with the addition of a nylon washer behind the striker's driving spring. Mitch Werbell of SIONICS suppressor/ Military Armament Company fame/infamy was particularly fond of the things, and put up with my mischief in exchange for the pretty fair supply of 9mm Largo ammunition and Destroyer magazines I kept him supplied with. Small Arms Review, which had a pretty good write-up on the Destroyer Carbine.

-archy-/-

[archy]

Oops! Last paragraf should have read:

Additional info can be found in the April 2002 edition [Vol.5, Number 7] of the Small Arms Review, which had a pretty good write-up on the Destroyer Carbine.

[LibKill]

My take on fancy optics is: how well do they work after you take the rifle and throw it on the ground? Optics are for specops and snipers. Iron sights are for riflemen.

True, too true.

Any equipment that goes into battle must be able to work under extreme abuse.

[Long Cut]

Okay, if you want REAL innovation...I give you the HK G-11 caseless rifle!

Caliber: 4.7 mm caseless
Action: Gas operated, rotating breech
Overall length: 750 mm
Barrel length: 540 mm
Weigth: 3.6 kg empty
Magazine capacity: 50 or 45 rds

It put out a three-shot burst at 3,000 rounds per minute, since it had no need of an extraction system. The rounds were totally encased in their propellant, which was solid. The magazine was positioned on top of the barrel, and the piece was cocked by the knob on the buttstock. It used a 3x scope.

For a while, it looked like the Bundeswher would adopt it, but it was put aside after the Wall fell, and more conventional designs were pursued. Don't ask me why.

It was also looked at as an M16 replacement, back in the '80s.

[LibKill]

They may not fight like well-trained and experienced infantrymen, but if suddenly thrust into that role, they'll at least have a chance- if they have a usable tool for doing so. And on occasion, they might just surprise the hell out of the *other people.*

Support troops must be well armed.

Have we forgotten the lessons of the Battle of the Bulge? Does no one remember the Chosin Reseviour?

Cooks, clerks and truck drivers were put in the front lines. They did well, but they were well armed!

[The Scorpion King]

"Hell, in a jungle fight, give me a .45 ACP submachine gun, UMP-45 style, and a LOT of napalm. In any case, the XM-8 appears very conventional in design, if one simply removes all the electronic geegaws. it's still a gas-operated automatic magazine-fed rifle, just more robust and reliable than its predecessor. Don't forget, polymer won't decay in a wet, humid environment like the M16's aluminum would."

In a jungle fight if you're calling in air support , then you're probably already screwed. Later versions of the M16 were pretty reliable as long as it was kept fairly well maintained. It 's easy to jump on the bandwagon for something new. We could end up trading a good rifle for something less that looks good.

[LibKill]

For a while, it looked like the Bundeswher would adopt it, but it was put aside after the Wall fell, and more conventional designs were pursued. Don't ask me why

After the wall fell Germany had serious economic problems propping up its eastern half.

Also, what does one do with such a weapon if there is a misfire (dud round). How do you eject the dud?

[Long Cut]

"Also, what does one do with such a weapon if there is a misfire (dud round). How do you eject the dud?"

As I understand the action, you simply crank the cocking knob once more, and the dud is pushed out the bottom of the weapon.

All in all, it was a promising design, with not a few implications for the future. The caseless ammunition was a true innovation, which could have revolutionized firearms the way smokeless powder did. It probably still will, when someone else takes up the concept.

Such things do not die...they only stay (temporarily) dormant.

[LibKill]

That was a promising design as you describe it. And far be it from me to discourage innovation in firearms design. :)

Even John Moses Browning had to start somewhere.

[Long Cut]

"We could end up trading a good rifle for something less that looks good."

OR, we could get an outstanding weapon. The M16 series is far from perfect.

"Later versions of the M16 were pretty reliable as long as it was kept fairly well maintained."

An AK would keep shooting no matter HOW it was maintained, as long as the bore was clean and the mag had ammo in it. The M16's reciever still gets fouled by the direct-gas system it uses (which, BTW, also suffers from using that tiny, fragile gas tube), and so MUST be cleaned, and often. It still jams more often than most of its contemporaries AND predecessors. Certainly, no other rifle issued to U.S. forces as general issue got so poor a reputation, and inspired such negative confidence. Yes, it has been improved, but some of its deficiencies are fundamental, and could only be fixed by replacing the operating system itself.

One of the reasons I'm excited about this XM-8 concept is, in fact, the operating system, which is based upon the excellent one in the HK G-36, which itself is based upon the AR-180 action. That one, BTW, was designed specifically to correct the M-16's deficiencies. It also includes as part of the overall design many things which had to be hung on or snapped on to the M16.

Sure, I'd like it if it was in a better (and preferably newer) cartridge. I'd LOVE it if it were made by a tried-and-true American arms company like Winchester or Remington. I'd jump for joy if it were made in a civilian model as well. But the military has needed a new rifle for years, one which reflects the march technology has made in 40-odd years. It's been put off and put off while the brass kept tossing the money at their (admittedly necessary) tanks, jets, and helicopters, and then even FURTHER while those same brass searched for some "whiz-bang" contraption out of an "ALIENS" movie.

Trust me, in my Navy job, I use an entire AIRPLANE that is 50-year-old technology. It's time for the basics to be improved, and this is a long overdue step in the right direction.

[The Coopster]

That's what a Ka-Bar is for!

[Long Cut]

Since the OICW project is what the XM-8 is supposed to lead to, I thought it proper to post a description of THAT weapons system. All of this is from the Modern Firearms Site.

Caliber: 5.56 mm NATO (KE) and 20x85mm (HE)
Action: Gas operated, rotating bolt (KE), unknown (HE)
Overall length: 890 mm
Barrel length: 250 mm (KE) 460 mm (HE)
Weight: ca 5.5 kg empty; ca 6.8 kg loaded
Magazine capacity: 20 or 30 rounds box (KE) and 6 rounds box (HE)
"The history of the one of the most ambitious projects in the history of small arms, known as the OICW, or the Objective Individual Combat Weapon, began late in the 1986, when the US Army Infantry School at Ft. Benning published a military paper, named "Small Arms System 2000" (SAS-2000). Despite the current trends towards the caseless and fleschette ammunition and appropriate weapons, researched and developed under the ACR program (see HK G11 and Steyr ACR entries for some details), this paper stated that the conventional small arms already reached its technological peak, and the only way to increase the hit probability in the small arms is to introduce a weapon that will fire explosive and fragmentation warheads, combined with the smart fusing and sighting / aiming technologies. While the most small arms research during the late 1980s in the USA was conducted under the ACR program, the idea first developed in the SAS-2000 was supported by another US military paper, published in 1989 by the US Army TRADOC (Training & Doctrine) center. This paper, called "The Small Arms Master Plan" (SAMP), requested for a family of infantry "Objective" weapons, namely the Objective Individual Combat Weapon (OICW), Objective Personal Defense Weapon (OPDW), and the Objective Crew Served Weapon (OCSW). The SAMP stated that such weapons must utilize the latest developments in computers and visual technologies, as well as in the small arms, and combine both high explosive warheads and traditional bullets fire capabilities in a single weapon, that should be fielded circa 2000. Of cause, the timelines and most of the weight and cost requirements set in this paper looked unrealistic from the start, but the development of the Objective weapons began in the early 1990s.

During the early stages of research and development in the mid-1990 one out of the two teams was selected as a winner for further development contract. This team is lead by the US based Alliant Techsystems corporation (ATK), with the Heckler-Koch (Germany), Brashear and the Omega companies (both of USA) as the other team members. The ATK is responsible for system integration, and also develops the 20mm Air Burst munitions; HK is responsible for both the 5.56mm rifle and the 20mm grenade launcher; Brashear works on the sighting equipment and Omega provides the training means. The resulting weapon was type-classified by the US Army as the XM-29 circa 2002, and is scheduled to enter the service during the year 2008 in limited numbers. It will be then consequently upgraded with the new technologies then available. Present plans for fielding the M-29 are to issue four units per one infantry squad of 9 men. Early in the 2002 the XM-29 test weapons were successfully tested with the newest 20mm HEAB (High Explosive Air Bursting) munitions, which will be a major "kill factor" for the M-29 weapon. At the same time the "kinetic energy" part of the XM-29 was type-classified as the XM-8 light rifle, and, in the near future, could possibly replace the current Colt M4 carbines as a standalone compact conventional small arms.

XM-29 OICW Description.
The XM-29 is a combination weapon, which has the 20mm semi-automatic, magazine fed grenade launcher as its primary part, and the 5.56mm compact assault rifle as its secondary part. Both parts are assembled into the single one-man portable unit, with the addition of the target acquisition / fire control system (TA/FCS), which is an essential part of the whole system. The XM-29 will become an integral part of the future Land Warrior system, capable of communicating with the other parts of this system, including the tactical computers and helmet-mounted displays.
The grenade launcher is capable to fire in semi-automatic mode only, and is gas operated. It has a bullpup layout with the detachable box magazine located in the butt of the weapon. The rifled barrel is used to launch the 20mm grenades up to the 1000 meters range with good accuracy. In the standard configuration most of the fire controls for the grenade launcher part are located on the rifle part, including the single trigger for both firing modules. It is quite possible, however, that the separate stock will be developed for the grenade launcher part, so it will be possible to use it without the rifle part attached. The launcher has the provisions for the TA/FCS system to be mounted on its top, and the appropriate interfaces, so the data provided from the TA/FCS can be used to program the 20mm grenade fuses. These fuses, used for the 20mm HEAB ammunition, has multiple mode of detonation, including the direct impact mode and the Air Burst mode. In the latter mode the fuse is pre-programmed to explode the warhead at the preset range, which is calculated during the flight by counting the number of the grenade rotations. This allows do defeat targets without the direct impact, using the blast and fragmentation effect of the high explosive warhead. This is a major advantage over the present small arms, which in most cases require the direct hit on the target to be effective, as it allows for greater aiming errors, and also makes possible to defeat targets in defilade, like the trenches and so. The high explosive warhead also has the advantage of not being dependent on its velocity to be effective, so unlike with the bullets, its effectiveness does not decreased with the increase of range. The disadvantages of this system is the extreme complexity of the electronic fuses, which results in the high price of a single round of ammunition. The present plans stated that the one HEAB round must cost about US $25, and it is still to be seen which will be an actual price when the M29 system will be fielded. It is interesting that the present design of the HEAB ammunition actually has two small HE warheads at the front and at the rear of the projectile, with the electronic fuse module located between them. While the HEAB is considered a primary round for the 20mm grenade launcher, it is entirely possible do develop a low cost, direct hit only anti-armour 20mm round with Shaped Charge warhead, which will be effective against lightly armored vehicles (APC, MICV and alike) and various hardened targets.
The rifle, or "kinetic energy" part of the XM-29 system, on the other hand, is a fairy conventional, short-barreled assault rifle, derived from the Heckler-Koch G36 assault rifle. The basic "rifle" part of the XM-29 has no buttstock and no own sights, and thus can be used separately from the whole system only as emergency, personal defense weapon. While being mounted to the whole system, it can be used for a close quarters work, both defensive or offensive (the 20mm grenade launcher has it minimum range of fire of about 50-100 meters), or as an low-cost, low intensity medium range offensive weapon. Most of the XM-29 system controls are built into the "rifle" part, around the trigger guard.

The target acquisition / fire control system (TA/FCS) is the most expensive and complicated unit of the whole system, since it must combine day and night vision capabilities, laser rangefinding unit, ballistic computer and various interfaces to the grenade launcher and external systems. It is used to find the targets in any light and weather conditions, determine the range to the target, calculate and display the aiming data, so the grenade or bullet could be fired to the desired point of impact, and then supply the data to the grenade launcher, so the range could be preset into the grenade fuse. In the case of damage to the TA/FCS the 20mm grenade launcher still can be used in the direct impact mode, as well as the rifle part of the system.

The current research and testing showed that the XM-29 can be up to 500% more effective than the present small arms, but it is still to be seen if all the requirements will be met in the resulting system, especially regarding to the reliability of electronic components, weight, and, at last but not at least, the unit price."

For the record, I don't like this contraption...too big, heavy, awkward, and entirely too many bells and whistles. It looks like some Sci-Fi geek with more imagination than practical experience thought this one up.

[LibKill]

I have seen that thing on "The History Channel".

1. It weighs too much.

2. I requires batteries to fire.

3. There are no iron sights to back up the electronic scope.

Don't get me wrong. I am all in favor of progress in arms.

My problem with this thing is mostly that it needs batteries and has no iron sights for backup.

Weight is also an important consideration.

A true soldiers friend must work in mud, rain, dropped, drop-kicked, p!ssed on, frozen at -40 degrees, buried in dirt for a month, and so on.

[RightOnline]

ping

[Shooter 2.5]

You're correct. I must have seen something that wasn't marked correctly. So I need your help. Since I didn't see a Destroyer, did I see a jungle carbine reworked to .308?

It seems to me that about five years ago, the gunshows in Dallas were selling Enfields that looked like the Jungle Carbine in .308. I was interested at the time but the short barrel bothered me since it was a .308. I know about muzzle blasts from shorties.

[Shooter 2.5]

The problem was the caseless ammo. The magazine spring tension would crumble the case and there was no easy way of cleaning it out.

The "Delta Force - Land Warrior" Computer game uses the G-11 and the OICW.