Sex Crimes Cover-Up By Vatican?(Vatican ordered cover ups)

CBS news ^ | August 7, 2003 | CBS Reporter

[Bluntpoint]

Cover up mandate may have come from Rome itself.

[Conservative til I die]

Dude, be a man and at least preface your posts as being from a known anti-Catholic evangelical.

[Notwithstanding]

But big fat lies are so handy when one wants to obfuscate reality and lambaste the Church.

[livius]

Cardinal Ottaviani was writing at a time when the Church did punish its own. I personally knew a priest who spent time in a monastic jail (remote monasteries where erring priests lived out very severe penances). Don't forget, also, that at that time the Church had concordats with numerous governments in which clergy were exempt from punishment by secular authorities, but were to be punished by Church authorities. Publicizing the lurid details was helpful to no one (and, as you point out, was not even done in the secular world in those days).

The problem was that after VatII, the Church ceased to discipline its clergy in any way, shape or form. Priests and religious who had been bad but under control before VatII suddenly figured they were now free to do whatever they wanted, and of course, the people who entered the clerical or religious life at that time also had that expectation.

In his letter, Cardinal Ottaviani was addressing a world that was soon to vanish.

[SoothingDave]

But big fat lies are so handy when one wants to obfuscate reality and lambaste the Church.

Ummm. Lamb. Baste. Must be time for lunch.

SD

[dmz]

You may want to study internal consistency.

Paragraph one, you state "I am not pushing an agenda"

Paragraph two, you state "I've made my agenda clear"

So which is it? It's kind of funny that you would point the finger of "amateurish" at another poster under the circumstances, doncha think? It's pretty bush league to contradict yourself in the space of 2 paragraphs.

Do the capital letters help you with my meaning?

[Bluntpoint]

How would you preface your posts?

[HamiltonJay]

Well it is clear the entire RC heirarchy is compromised, there is no "fresh face" who can clean house, and it is doubtful that JP in his age and health can do it... so where does that leave the church?

Since it was clearly doctrine and clearly followed by nearly all currently sitting in positions of power, no one in power can be trusted as having any moral authority regarding this matter... so how does the church clean its house? and who could possibly do it?

This is a huge geopolitical drama being played out, and western press will largely ignore everything but the sex charges.

[Conservative til I die]

Fine, you got me. Let me clarify. I'm not pushing some *hidden* agenda. My agenda is clear. Cannot say the same thing for most of the critics.

And capitalizing your words and using a semblance of good grammar does not change the meaning of what you say, it just makes me feel I'm not reading something written by an 8-year old.

[Bluntpoint]

Well, except for the most "knee-jerk" defenders labeling everyone else as catholic bashers, now the faithful can direct its ire at the top instead of throwing tomatoes at the messengers.

[HamiltonJay]

This may be true, but to threaten the victim with excommunication should the talk? Come on, you really aren't trying to defend this policy are you?

Hey there boy, sorry you got raped by our pedophile priest, we've put him in jail, but don't tell anyone or we'll kick you out of the church and you'll go to hell.

This is La Cosa Nostra esh to its core. The church using its spiritual power over its followers to protect its own faults is incredulous.

[Conservative til I die]

I already prefaced them. Twice. On this thread. I make no bones that I am a Catholic. I agree that there is an ongoing sex scandal. More importantly than the abuse of children, which is going to happen, whether we try to stop it or not, is any sort of cover-up.

At the same time, my agenda on these types of threads is to out the bigots that are gleefully (and I do think they are glad about it) using the suffering of these kids as yet another opportunity to bash the Church. If it wasn't this, they'd be saying the same things over some other issue. They're no different than the Daschles secretly hoping for a few more casualties in Iraq so that he can come out and say "See! I told you we should have stayed out of Iraq! Vote for me in 2004!"

I'm perfectly willing to discuss the issue with people. However, frankly, there's not much to discuss since the posts at best seem to say "See, I told you this Church was evil! HA HA!" There's no dialogue. It's a monologue coming from haters who are not interested in learning anything.

[OPS4]

Jesus reprimands all of the churches in revelation,
that is why it is important to recognize Jesus first
amd foremost. He is The Way, The Truth, and The Light!

Ops4 God Bless America!

[Redleg Duke]

Such bitterness! Having trouble dealing with people who don't accept everything you say as gospel, eh?

So much for an exchange of ideas. Go back to your cherished dark ages.

[Redleg Duke]

No, leave the snake oil salesmen.

Your string of offensive and irrelevant posts earned you this slap.

The subject is exchange of ideas and positions. You and your other buddy, Dave, aren't interested in that. You only want to hear your positions.

Take a hike, guy. You know not of what you claim.

[Redleg Duke]

You better read history, and not from the church-approved historians.

[OPS4]

No one said that the Church is the Scarlot Whore,
but to make this article a revelation of the church
and its problems is like a repeat of so many before it.

The concetration of Catholics, and Christians around
the world, is to be focused on Jesus Christ and his words,
not the fallible men in Rome.

No institution can be perfect, but the word of God is.
My point, we do not expect any church to be perfect,
but we can focus on the perfect word of our Lord and Savior.

Revelation points out that God is displeased with
all of the Churches and reprimands them all, showing,
that our faith must be in Jesus to be saved!

Ops4 God BLess America!

[Redleg Duke]

You have your opinions, carefully programed into you. I suggest you keep your mind closed. I don't think you could handle anything closely resembling the truth and reality.

And pathetic name-calling isn't improving your credibility. Now go say 14 Hail Mary's and 24 Our Fathers.

[Bluntpoint]

Your first post to me on this thread:

"What's saddest about you three is that you are using the sex scandal to push your agenda, which is being against Catholics. Don't pretend like *this* is what drove you over the edge.

Sad that you use others' misery to push your agenda. KInda Clintonesque, actually."

The tenor of my posts before your reaction:

"It seemed worthwhile reporting. It also gives those who want change in the church a place to place blame and a point to start cleaning house. "

My agenda?

[HamiltonJay]

Very true, but that still doesn't solve the large problem... how can an organization (any organization) clean itself of corruption, when EVERYONE in a position of power is corrupted?

Defacto is you bring in an outsider to clean house, but there is no such thing as an outsider to the Catholic heirarchy, you can't just go out and find a new Pope, and fire the board, its not like a CEO there is no comparable person on the planet. And all those that are remotely close to a level where they could succeed him are all compromised as well.

I am RC, and I have always known and felt that organizations of men are subject to the failings of men. I never believed the church was perfect, its not.. the RC history is littered with injustices and hypocritical acts, no one can examine the nearly 2000 year old history and not know this...

Even so, I find no way to excuse this. This is no longer a matter of a few individuals acting in collusion without the knowlege of those in charge. This is those in charge perpetuating and perpetrating some of the most heinous acts that can be imagined upon the most weak among us. In a way that is not only most unholy, but in the face of the truth, remain publicly unrepentant!

This is indeed a sad day, but as I mentioned before, what is done is done, it cannot be undone.. However, the real frightening issue and more important issue, is how can the church possibly move forward from this??? I fail to see how they can with any sort of authority given the sheer extent and time involved.... no one with any power in the church can be trusted, they are all guilty of following this tenent... none spoke out, none fought it... so who can possibly lead the curch out of this morass?

[Bluntpoint]

You got me.

This constant "circling the wagons" approach certainly is not working.