Gay Episcopalian bishop predicts other churches will welcome gays

Agence France-Presse. | 8/06/03

[kattracks]

The US Episcopal church's first openly gay bishop predicted that other churches would soon follow his denomination's example in welcoming gays into their leadership.

"I suspect that before too very long, other denominations will also follow and welcome openly gay and lesbian people into leadership positions. That's my prayer," Gene Robinson told ABC television on Wednesday.

A majority of the church's House of Bishops on Tuesday voted 62 to 45 to ratify Robinson's appointment as bishop of New Hampshire, church officials said, ending three days of contentious debate.

Conservatives within church ranks, many of whom have fiercely opposed Robinson's election on the grounds it violates Biblical teachings, were quick to express their disapproval, and a group of 24 bishops threatened to resign if he were elected.

"Well, anytime anyone decides to leave the church, it's a very sad thing. And I certainly have been praying and will be praying every day that such a thing does not happen," Robinson said. "Indeed, I don't think it needs to happen."

"The Episcopal Church in this country, and the Anglican community worldwide, the great gift we bring to the world is we are able to maintain a wide diversity of opinions on various issues while holding our faith in Jesus Christ as central and the thing that binds us together as the body of Christ. So I think there's no reason for us to come apart," Robinson said.

The Episcopal Church, the US branch of the Anglican Church, has more than 2.1 million followers, making it the 10th-largest Protestant church in the United States.

[SoothingDave]

The homosexual agenda has a vastly weaker influence on the Orthodox Church than it does on the Roman Catholic Church, which isn't on your list since they're not part of the WCC. One of the reasons for this is the healthy state of the theology of marriage as a sacrament within the Orthodox Church. There is no movement for female priests within the Orthodox Church. Also, most Orthodox priests are married.

Hey, guy, what's up? I wouldn't say that the theology of Marriage is in an unhealthy state in the Catholic Church.

It is an interesting thought experiment, but I think that if the positions were reversed, and Orthodoxy was the dominant Church in the West and in this country we would have seen the homosexuals and other "progressives" attack that Church.

The Catholic Church, as a small minority would likely be in the stronger position and not a target for takeover.

SD

[SoothingDave]

I thought adulterer only if married person commit sex with someone else, none married just permiscious.

That may be the dictionary definition, sex where one or both of the partners is married to someone else.

But for the Church and God and the Commandments, it is clear that the prohibition against "adultrey" should be understood to prohibit any sexual activity outside of marriage.

SD

[Wordsmith]

Hi SD!

I can certainly see your point. The RCC is certainly a target because of it's influence. I also don't think that faithful RC's (which certainly includes a fair amount of the RC leadership) are in any way to blame for the attacks of Satan on their institution.

OTOH, I can see the potential for an argument that RC intellectualization of ethical arguments presented an opening for gays. That, and of course the celibacy requirement, which self-selects those who are more at risk for the sin of homosexuality. But, I should save this for the religion forum!

[polemikos]

so a person should give up faith in god based on the bias of the media? is that what you are suggesting?

You'll have to connect the dots for me on that one. I don't see your argument.

However, I think it is a fair implication of the original poster's comments that he wants truth, and that a church that doesn't teach it has lost him as a member. That is universal. However, the problem/opportunity for us all is that "truth" is not of our own choosing. Only God's Truth is truth. And we have assurance of that Truth in the Catholic Church.

[SuziQ]

Satan sure is a great PR man!

That's his strength! Read "The Screwtape Letters" by C. S. Lewis.

[SoothingDave]

OTOH, I can see the potential for an argument that RC intellectualization of ethical arguments presented an opening for gays.

Not sure what that means.

That, and of course the celibacy requirement, which self-selects those who are more at risk for the sin of homosexuality.

There may be something to that, but the argument is akin to drowning out rather than removing the bad apples. Even then, following your model, the bishops would still be selected from those self-selected for celebacy. Which, if normal marriage was allowed may be even more strongly weighted toward homosexuals.

SD

[ModelBreaker]

Absolutely, every church should admit homosexuals. But, no church should put forth leaders who proclaim that a sin is not a sin.

I agree with qualifications. Paul in Corinthians describes how the Church in Corinth should deal with openly adulterous members. The list of sins he gives right there includes both adultery and homosexual sodomy. He said to exclude such people from the congregation until they change their ways.

Seems to me that open, practicing homosexuals who do not concede their acts are sinful fall into the category that Paul would exclude. Certainly he would oppose making them bishops.

[SuziQ]

some seminaries had to be shut down like adandoned nuclear plants because they were beyond reform.

The good news is that this new crop of Bishops is no longer tolerating that kind of behavior. The older Bishops who did allow it are dying or retiring, and being replaced by men who have seen the damage done by that kind of tolerance and have no intention of seeing it continue.

The older Bishops placed great store in collegiality, to the point of allowing abusers to continue to be in parishes and openly homosexual men be ordained. The younger guys are not thinking along those lines anymore, and are beginning to hold abusers accountable and clean up the seminaries. Thank God!

[reflecting]

The God of this free will religion can only desire and offer to save sinners. He is helpless to secure, by His own power, what He longs to do.

Paraphasing; "and Jesus said 'Oh Jerusalem, Jerusalem how many times I would have gathered you under my wings.....and you would not.'"

Clearly showing the desire of God is not met because of the choice of man.....

[Heartlander]

LCMS views on homosexuality

LCMS views on ELCA

[thirdheavenward]

Among the few differences between the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod and the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod is a difference on prayer "fellowship". In short, the WELS believes that Wisconsin Synod Lutherans should not pray with people who do not belong to the Synod. The LCMS believes that prayer with Christians not in the LCMS is acceptable. In order to merge, one or the other group would have to compromise their consciences, by either refraining from praying when they think the Spirit leads them to, or participating in prayers which seem promiscuous to them. I do not believe it would be proper to ask the WELS members to go against what they believe is right.

Now as for the whole "it would be great if they were one" buisness, you forget that we ARE one in the body of Christ in the most important sense. I believe strongly that where there are divisions in the political organization of the church due to honest differences in following what we believe to be right, that the value of following our consciences freely far exceeds the value of having a monolithic organization.

[Zack Nguyen]

He's right. And those churches will decline in membership as the faithful take their families and their funds elsewhere.

[Conservativegreatgrandma]

I have belonged to the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod for the last 35 years---it really upsets me when they group us with the other so-called Lutherans (ELCA). First of all they are not Evangelical, they are not Lutheran. I aggree they are a church , but they are not American. three of the four initials are false at least argumentative. We are probably the most CONSERVATIVE church in America.

Good post. I agree with most of it. I'm not sure we're the Most conservative but we're conservative and that's why I left the liberal ELCA.

The liberal ELCA is having problems of their own. There are still conservative people in that church and they're leading whole congregations away from the ELCA. There's a new splinter group called Word Alone being formed by those leaving the ELCA.

[Captain Peter Blood]

In my state newspaper this morning I found that my Bishop and the four clergy members that are attending the convention all voted to ratify Mr. Robinson as a Bishop. The following is a letter I wrote them all in response to their vote:

Dear Bishop Maze & Reverend's Grisham,Barker,Payne & Bosmyer,

I can only say that as a lifelong Episcopalian you are beyond a doubt the sorriest excuse for priests I have ever known.

I can't tell you what a shock it was to see that the five of you voted to confirm as Bishop a man, who is not only gay, but himself a sorry excuse for a human being. It is not enough that this man left his wife and children, but he left them for another man. As far as I am concerned he ranks among the lowest of God's creatures.

How in good conscience could you do such a blasphemous thing in direct contradiction to the teaching of Jesus and the Bible ?

My analysis of what has happened to the Episcopal Church and other Faiths is now confirmed by your vote.

The Church over a period of time has now been taken over by the Radical Left Wing Trotskyite's of the Episcopal Church, i.e. YOU!

You and your brethren are now pushing a Left Wing, Gay agenda and in the process are destroying the Church and what it stands for. You have now created a "Schism" in the church which will in the long run cause a splintering.

Not only that-- the consequences of your actions will now mean that the Episcopal Church will be drummed out of the Anglican Communion and also lose our connection with the Church of England.

It is patently obvious that the thinking process is devoid in any of you. Did any of you really sit down to consider the broad implications and long term effects of your decision in this matter and what is in the best interests of the church? Or did your Left Wing Agenda and the teachings of Karl Marx override what good sense, if you had any to begin with, to your so called commitment to the Lord?

The "Hypocrisy" of you people is almost beyond the pale and believe me there will be a migration from this Church and those people will go where they feel more comfortable.

As Former President Richard Nixon might say, " You have now roused the Great Silent Majority". Conservatives like me will not take this "Lying Down", and once the Lion is awakened the wrath will be forthcoming. That Wrath being either a new Church or the "Purging" of those comtemptuous urchins like yourself.

All I can say is that you and your fellow travelers must be feeling very good right now. But mark my words this is a very Pyrrhic Victory and in the long run you and your Left Wing "Apostles" will be driven back into the closeted dark shadows where you belong.

Regards,

[lrslattery]

According to Damian, the vice of sodomy "surpasses the enormity of all others," because:

"Without fail, it brings death to the body and destruction to the soul. It pollutes the flesh, extinguishes the light of the mind, expels the Holy Spirit from the temple of the human heart, and gives entrance to the devil, the stimulator of lust. It leads to error, totally removes truth from the deluded mind ... It opens up hell and closes the gates of paradise ... It is this vice that violates temperance, slays modesty, strangles chastity, and slaughters virginity ... It defiles all things, sullies all things, pollutes all things ...

"This vice excludes a man from the assembled choir of the Church ... it separates the soul from God to associate it with demons. This utterly diseased queen of Sodom renders him who obeys the laws of her tyranny infamous to men and odious to God… She strips her knights of the armor of virtue, exposing them to be pierced by the spears of every vice ... She humiliates her slave in the church and condemns him in court; she defiles him in secret and dishonors him in public; she gnaws at his conscience like a worm and consumes his flesh like fire. ... this unfortunate man (he) is deprived of all moral sense, his memory fails, and the mind's vision is darkened. Unmindful of God, he also forgets his own identity. This disease erodes the foundation of faith, saps the vitality of hope, dissolves the bond of love. It makes way with justice, demolishes fortitude, removes temperance, and blunts the edge of prudence.

"Shall I say more?"

St Peter Damian's The Book of Gomorrah

[Conservativegreatgrandma]

I am a ELCA member (probably not for long). We vote on the blessing of gay unions and gay leadership in 2005. The chruch is suppose to be producing discussion materials (propaganda?) this fall that every congregation is to talk about and pray over.

You got that right. My sister attended an ELCA district conference. They broke into groups to study this issue of homosexuality. She could tell the idea was to soften the group to the acceptance. The light bulb has gone on in her head. She'll be out of there.

[valeris]

As a faithful prtestant I have to say I am deeply disappointed with the Catholic church and I now understand when people say how evil will come out of the church.
I would like to know how this so call servant of God explains the passages in the bible where God clearly forbids homosexuality.God sought to make a suitable partner for men, He created women. Genesis 2:24-25 shows us this when referring to the first husband and wife, Adam and Eve. It reads, "Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed."

[PBRSTREETGANG]

"I suspect that before too very long, other denominations will also follow and welcome openly gay and lesbian people into leadership positions. That's my prayer," Gene Robinson told ABC television on Wednesday.

First time, to my knowledge, that I have prayed that a bishop's prayers wouldn't be answered.