Gay Episcopalian bishop predicts other churches will welcome gays

Agence France-Presse. | 8/06/03

[kattracks]

The US Episcopal church's first openly gay bishop predicted that other churches would soon follow his denomination's example in welcoming gays into their leadership.

"I suspect that before too very long, other denominations will also follow and welcome openly gay and lesbian people into leadership positions. That's my prayer," Gene Robinson told ABC television on Wednesday.

A majority of the church's House of Bishops on Tuesday voted 62 to 45 to ratify Robinson's appointment as bishop of New Hampshire, church officials said, ending three days of contentious debate.

Conservatives within church ranks, many of whom have fiercely opposed Robinson's election on the grounds it violates Biblical teachings, were quick to express their disapproval, and a group of 24 bishops threatened to resign if he were elected.

"Well, anytime anyone decides to leave the church, it's a very sad thing. And I certainly have been praying and will be praying every day that such a thing does not happen," Robinson said. "Indeed, I don't think it needs to happen."

"The Episcopal Church in this country, and the Anglican community worldwide, the great gift we bring to the world is we are able to maintain a wide diversity of opinions on various issues while holding our faith in Jesus Christ as central and the thing that binds us together as the body of Christ. So I think there's no reason for us to come apart," Robinson said.

The Episcopal Church, the US branch of the Anglican Church, has more than 2.1 million followers, making it the 10th-largest Protestant church in the United States.

[MattGarrett]

with apologies to C.S. Lewis:

My Dear Wormwood,

Words cannot convey the joy we are experiencing in learning today’s news that a division of the Enemy’s forces have voted to embrace great Vice in their clergy. By electing as bishop one who is so firmly entrapped in our favorite Vice, we cannot help but be effective in rendering this branch of the Enemy’s forces as completely fruitless as they bite at one another over the results.

In fact, once established, the effort we must exert is minimal, for the Vice is a true one. One that entraps the army of the Enemy no matter what tack it takes. If they embrace it, our forces can gain in-roads into the very heart of its membership. And if they speak out against it, we can use public pressure to show just how heartless and hateful their Master and they truly are. And if they ignore the Vice, it shall grow like a weed with which we are entangling the very fabric of society. And it has truly done that regardless.

You can see just how many different avenues we have to assault. For now, we can attack both from within and without. We can inflict doubt, hatred, indifference, and even the Vice itself. We can confuse and ensnare its youth, devastate families, tempt and destroy it’s clergy (which our forces assigned to the Holy See are enjoying great success).

At the very least, we can divide the forces of our Enemy by leading them towards the only avenue they can take ... into schism. And in dividing, we can conquer.

But we must keep their focus on the Vice. Always the Vice. Never on how the Enemy suggests they deal with the Vice. For the only effective method with which the enemy has to defend in this theater of operations … and I am loath to even utter it … is to love those with which we have afflicted with it ... unconditionally.

This is a hard road for the Enemy’s forces to take. One, because as you know they are woefully undisciplined and judgemental to commit to such an activity and two, because the male members of their numbers will begin to question their own sexuality should they accept and love those who are indeed afflicted – especially if they are progeny.

And that presents opportunities of it’s own.

Your uncle,

Screwtape.

[Pan_Yans Wife]

Matt 5:32 "But I say to you that every one who divorces his wife, except on the ground of unchastity, makes her an adulteress; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery."

Even the act of divorcing the wife, makes the wife an adulteress, even if she doesn't commit adultery herself.

This also reminds me of a messy divorce case, where the woman who committed adultery with the married man, is brought in to testify about her complicity in the act. Isn't she guilty of adultery, too? It takes two people to commit adultery, the husband, and the willing woman.

So, even in remarrying, you are ignoring the first marriage vows between you, your spouse and God.

Perhaps the crux of the matter is that the marriage, in God's eyes, lasts for eternity, no matter that legally you are divorced.

[polemikos]

If the pope ever supported women priests or gays---I am out.

RE: Women priests

In 1994 Pope John Paul II formally declared that the Church does not have the power to ordain women. He stated, "Although the teaching that priestly ordination is to be reserved to men alone has been preserved by the constant and universal tradition of the Church and firmly taught by the magisterium in its more recent documents, at the present time in some places it is nonetheless considered still open to debate, or the Church’s judgment that women are not to be admitted to ordination is considered to have a merely disciplinary force. Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church’s divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Luke 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful" (Ordinatio Sacerdotalis 4).

And in 1995 the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (NOTE: these are the heavy-hitters, the conservative guardians of the truth), in conjunction with the pope, ruled that this teaching "requires definitive assent, since, founded on the written Word of God, and from the beginning constantly preserved and applied in the tradition of the Church, it has been set forth infallibly by the ordinary and universal magisterium (cf. Second Vatican Council, Dogmatic Constitution on the Church, Lumen Gentium 25:2)" (Response of Oct. 25, 1995).

This is something that is never going to change.

RE: Homosexuality

Modern arguments in favor of homosexuality (genetics, commonality, homophobia) have been insufficient to overcome the evidence that homosexual behavior is against divine and natural law, as the Bible and the Church, as well as the wider circle of Jewish and Christian (not to mention Muslim) writers, have always held.

The Catholic Church thus teaches: "Basing itself on sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered. They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved" (Catechism of the Catholic Church 2357).

However, the Church also acknowledges that "[homosexuality’s] psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. . . . The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s cross the difficulties that they may encounter from their condition.

"Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection" (CCC 2357– 2359).

Paul comfortingly reminds us, "No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your strength, but with the temptation will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it" (1 Cor. 10:13).

I.e., hate the sin, but love the sinner.

[TexasRepublic]

Where exactly is there a refrence about women with women. I'm in a debate with my Flaming/Liberal/Lesbian Mother in law who thinks that it's not a sin and i need to show her where in the bible it says anything about Lesbianism.

The same principle applies, for men or women. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

[SirAllen]

"In 1930, the Lambeth Conference ruled that artificial birth control could be tolerated under certain conditions. All other mainline denominations eventually followed suit (except the Catholic Church)."

Yeah, but the Bible doesn't specifically address contraception. It specifically addresses homosexuality and says it is a sin. Conclusion: 2/3rds of the Episcopalian bishop's haven't read the Bible, let's pray the leaders in the other denominations have.

[Bikers4Bush]

How I figure it is that you can't have someone who is knowingly living in violation of the teachings of the bible attempting to teach others and give guidance.

There's no credibility there.

[Aliska]

Many people do things they not talk about. Amazing things you learn from people when they drunk and blabbering inner secrets.

That's probably true. I'm pretty open, too much so at times, but I haven't hung around drunks since my alcoholic husband divorced me for having an affair, make that two. Drinking ruined my marriage. But I don't hang around people who drink too much and blab their inner secrets. I had shock enough with a Christian woman friend who came to me with some new teaching about Jesus the man and wanted to go into my bedroom with me to teach me. I couldn't be friends with her after that because I was so shocked. Still am and she's dead.

Maybe it just my generation? I have heard from several women that they can accept threesome with 2 women and man as a feminen thing that's kinky but out reject opposite, because they want man masculine not some pillow biter.

Some of it *must* be your generation. Women in my generation were just starting to go to bars. Respectable women never did that before, especially alone. I never cared for the bar scene which was probably due to my not-very-strict Methodist upbringing where they frowned on drinking.

I suppose I don't know the half of it what people do these days. It's just as well.

Are you a little voyeuristic about listing to these deep secrets? I don't like to hear that stuff and if someone I am getting close to comes up with strange ideas, I get rid of them.

[Wordsmith]

Bravo, and thank you. CSL would be proud.

[polemikos]

its interesting how quick you are to abandon god
oh well, god made a place for people just like you

Could you be a little more explicit?
I must confess I don't see your point.

[Bikers4Bush]

Nope, and I never said I did. But it's pretty clear that those that are supposed to be leading us in that respect should or at the very least should try.

I don't consider a guy who bends over for his boyfriend on a regular basis to be trying.

[PhiKapMom]

I know that feeling! I have asked a lot of Why's and wondered why people don't question which has caused a lot of lit candles on my behalf by my in-laws!

[Bikers4Bush]

go earl turner - Since Aug 6, 2003

And THAT would pretty much say it all about you.

[IndyPatriot]

I'm pretty sure Lutheran Church Missouri Synod will not welcome gays or lesbians as ministers either.

However, I do have a question regarding the Lutheran Church and its various synods. The Evangelical Lutherans are currently in communion with the Episcopalians. Clergy from either donomination can serve in each others church. Does anyone understand the current relationship between the Evangelical Lutherans and LCMS. In my mind, this gay ordination could be grounds for the Lutheran church to further split. LCMS remains wholly committed to Orthodox interpretation of scripture. ( No women, gays, or lesbians holding ministerial office. )

[hellinahandcart]

I see his point. He's a troll.

[Bikers4Bush]

Bingo.