White-Collar Exodus

ABC News ^ | July 29, 2003 | Betsy Stark

[RockyMtnMan]

Michael Emmons thought he knew how to keep a job as a software programmer.

"You have to continue to keep yourself up to speed," he said. "If you don't, you'll get washed out."

Up to speed or not, Emmons wound up being "washed out" anyway. Last summer, he moved his family from California to Florida for the Siemens Co., makers of electronics and equipment for industries. Not long after, Emmons and 19 other programmers were replaced by cheaper foreign workers.

Adding insult to injury, Emmons and the others had to train their replacements.

"It was the most demoralizing thing I've ever been through," he told ABCNEWS. "After spending all this time in this industry and working to keep my skills up-to-date, I had to now teach foreign workers how to do my job so they could lay me off."

Just as millions of American manufacturing jobs were lost in the 1980s and 1990s, today white-collar American jobs are disappearing. Foreign nationals on special work visas are filling some positions but most jobs are simply contracted out overseas.

"The train has left the station, the cows have left the barn, the toothpaste is out of the tube," said John McCarthy, director of research at Forrester Research, who has studied the exodus of white-collar jobs overseas. "However you want to talk about it, you're not going to turn the tide on this in the same way we couldn't turn the tide on the manufacturing shift."

India Calling

Almost 500,000 white-collar American jobs have already found their way offshore, to the Philippines, Malaysia and China. Russia and Eastern Europe are expected to be next. But no country has captured more American jobs than India.

In Bangalore, India, reservation agents are booking flights for Delta; Indian accountants are preparing tax returns for Ernst & Young; and Indian software engineers are developing new products for Oracle.

They are all working at a fraction of the cost these companies would pay American workers.

For example, American computer programmers earn about $60,000, while their Indian counterparts only make $6,000.

"It's about cost savings," said Atul Vashistha, CEO of NeoIT, a California-based consulting company that advises American firms interested in "offshoring" jobs previously held by Americans. "They need to significantly reduce their cost of doing business and that's why they're coming to us right now."

Vivek Pal, an Indian contractor for technology consulting group Wipro, whose clients include Microsoft, GE, JP Morgan Chase, and Best Buy, is hiring 2,000 Indian workers quarterly to keep up with demand. Pal knows American workers resent the "offshoring" trend but says all Americans will benefit in the long run.

"Globalization — whether it's for products or services — may feel like it hurts, but at the end of the day, it creates economic value all around," said Pal.

At the end of the day, Emmons has a different view: "If you sit at a desk, beware," he said. "Your job is going overseas."

[Lazamataz]

Just following your lead.

Then if you were following my lead, you might have simply answered pleasantly back.

[Dane]

Then if you were following my lead, you might have simply answered pleasantly back

Uh no that would be called breaking ranks from your lead.

[AndyJackson]

You know, Agamemnon, Laz is right. You are a sorry excuse for a human being. You're lack of empathy for the other 98% of the American public who are not cut out to be CEO's of their own companies or earn six figures, or who just want to do their day's job and go home and take care of family and friends and neighborhoods and little league teams and all the rest that keeps our contry running is pretty goddamned disgusting. I am not one of those folks, but guess what - they are the guys who are the pillars of our community who hold our society together and not a nerd PhD biochemist who spends 18 hrs a day running his own company however big the exponent on his salary. And don't get me wrong. My life and background is a lot closer to yours than you think or know. The differnce between us is that you think you are a better human being than everyone else out there, and I know better.

[Lazamataz]

Uh no that would be called breaking ranks from your lead.

Whatever. That'll learn me from ever trying to have even one civil exchange with you.

I think you really do thrive on negative attention.

[SauronOfMordor]

The picture you paint seems almost a return to Fuedalism, but it's hard to argue with, given the way things are going

Feudalism worked OK for the lords in the castles. Communism worked out great for the Party elite (the Nomenklatura -- literally "the names on the list"). A new feudalism will work out great for the super-rich. All that will happen is that the number of super-rich that can be supported, and the number of peasants each will need to support him in style

[Lazamataz]

The differnce between us is that you think you are a better human being than everyone else out there, and I know better.

Humility. Empathy.

Agamemnon, you could learn an awful lot from this fellow.

Andy, you are a very decent person, it appears. I could also probably learn a lot from you.

[jpl]

Huh it seems that you are licking you chops at the prospect of a Dean or Gephardt presidency. Either you are as Lenin put it a "useful idiot" or just a plain idiot working from the bowels of the DNC. BTW, your alls mutual admiratition doom and gloom society for the last 50 replies or so, was amusing and yet kinda of sad, seeing that the world will always have chicken little glass half emptiers, such as yourself. Thank God Ronald Reagan was a glass half fuller.

Not quite I'm afraid. Unlike his father, who to be honest I never really cared for that much to begin with, I actually happen to really like this President Bush and desperately want to see him get re-elected and the Republicans keep and expand power. I don't agree with him on every issue, but I remember what eight years of Clinton did to this country, and I have absolutely no desire to see that happen again.

Truth be told, I'm probably more conservative than you are. The difference between you and me isn't a matter of optimism vs. pessimism. It's that I vividly remember '92 and the lessons learned from that disaster. You've chosen to shut it out of your mind and pretend that it never happened, or at least to believe that this President is bulletproof and that history could never repeat itself. Unfortunately, there's a lot of arrogant, paternalistic, out of touch Republicans who think the way you do, which I suppose is why we'll always be the "stupid party".

[MrNatural]

Yes, Laz, we should all come out from behind our rocks; we too, can become self-absorbed,
single-minded, strivers, and dispense bite-sized pop-psych tidbits to the rabble about how to
improve their miserable lot.

We too could be congratulating ourselves on our attempts to improve the lower-class humans;
inferior to us because we have bigger 1040s.

[Agamemnon]

Just never lose sight of the fact that somewhere in Asia is somebody who is just as good at biochemistry as you, and a lot hungrier.

Lose sight? Hey, that is opportunity knocking!

I may be the one in the position to recommend them to one of my clients, or even have him working for me. And if one of my clients happens to be in his backyard, I'll make his services available to my client, and add my mark-up. Saves on travel too.

I have long standing relationships with a number of clients. They like what I have produced for them and they still want more. That said, what says I personally have to do it all? I've got plenty of consultative work to keep me busy already.

Everybody wins: my client, the local biochemist, and me too. If I get that biochemist a permanent job, I can make a commission on that, and set up a consulting arrangement with a very grateful new employee, happy because my efforts and his relationship with me got him his job.

That's called business development.

What? Me worry?

[SauronOfMordor]

That's why it pays to diversify, not just your stock, but your skills-set too.

I've got experience in mainframes, Unix, PC development, telecomm, and Web development. It just happens that the IT field as a whole took a hit, and I never got around to getting my electrician's license. There is only so many hours in the week, and spending too much time diversifying means that you don't have time left to maintain your skills in your area of specialty

What happens to you if the biotech field as a whole suddenly goes south, with China and India deciding that it's the "next big thing" and cranking out a couple of million grads?

[Buckwheats]

I think your obsession warrants worry.

[Lazamataz]

Yes, Laz, we should all come out from behind our rocks; we too, can become self-absorbed, single-minded, strivers, and dispense bite-sized pop-psych tidbits to the rabble about how to improve their miserable lot.

We too could be congratulating ourselves on our attempts to improve the lower-class humans; inferior to us because we have bigger 1040s.

OMG! LOL! Man, you are even more ruthless than I am!

[Dane]

I think you really do thrive on negative attention.

Uh you were the one way back at the start of this thread(reply #17), who used this lame line to the simple question I asked in reply #6 about self-serve check out lines.

Now, I have a question for you, my high-school chum.

I am not in high school, left 20 years ago, but for some reason you thought that retort was a "pleasant" way of debating.

Bzzt, sorry you 21st century Robes Pierre.

[Lazamataz]

What happens to you if the biotech field as a whole suddenly goes south, with China and India deciding that it's the "next big thing" and cranking out a couple of million grads?

Then we can deride him, telling him he's a loser for not coming out from behind his rock and telling him he should have diversified and now he's a woe-is-me sack cloth wearer?

[Dane]

It's that I vividly remember '92 and the lessons learned from that disaster

Yep so do I. It seems that you got caught up in the Cravillian mantra of the worst economy in 50 years, when that wasn't the case, the Carter economy was.

But what the hey, IMO, you and some of your comrades on this thread are trolling for people on FR to believe the old Carvillian ploy of 92.

Sheesh talk about re-treading.

[Lazamataz]

I was trying to raise the level of our exchanges. But that was pointless, I guess. No worries; I know how to behave with you henceforth.

[Agamemnon]

You really need to work on your skills relating to people. Have you considered therapy?

Let me guess: in life you're not a REAL doctor but you play one on TV?

You might want to prescribe a little therapy for you own diminished sense of self-worth. I'm the one who believes in you and everyone else's ability to make it. You just don't believe it yourself.

[Lazamataz]

I am seeing little profit in these exchanges with you. I am gaining no insight from you and only getting additional distaste for your character and who you are. Perhaps we can agree to go our separate ways.

[AndyJackson]

Oh that's right in your mind America is now 1789 France, filled with doom and gloom. To put it in your mindset, "We bourgoise [sic] pigs had food that should have been destined for peasants".

You know, this thread started because some folks around here think that this may be the defining issue in the next election and that President Bush better get his policies lined up. If it is then its political impact will be explosive.

But you and Agamemnon seem to think that you can blame the victims of this, or convince them that they are better off when they think they are worse off. You might win your arugment with Laz and me, but that is not going to get you our your candidate votes. I don't want to see Gephardt or Gephardt2 or Gephardt33 as the next president. But that conclusion is foregone if the the Republicans cave to Corporations American in Name Only.

Your smooth words might eventually winover me. Laz seems to be a harder case, however. I really think it will get you nowhere, however, with the guy who has a master's in computer science and a family and mortgage and whose job just moved to Hyderabad [where he cannot get a work permit]. You may be right that he needs to diversify his skill set (to what? for God's sake, I ask you to what?). You tell him that on the advertising Bill where you ask him to vote for Bush. It will be a winning campaign strategy - for the other guy.

[MelBelle]

I can honestly say that since loosing my job to India on June 1st, I'm glad I didn't stay up all night learning programming just like my boss told me I should do....It wouldn't have helped a bit. All of our programmers in my Los Angeles group - with the exception of a few - lost their job in my company's offshoring project.

I've been told that I still should train and get certifications in IT, that certified IT workers will still get jobs. I would prefer to learn a new trade that will keep me employed. Any suggestions?