White-collar jobs may not be back soon

Dallas Morning News via Boston Globe ^ | August 3, 2003 | Angela Shah

[sarcasm]

But those very same forces are now serving to prolong workers' misery. More college-educated executives and managers have been cut from payrolls this last recession, compared with previous ones. And it's taking them longer to find new work.

More worrisome to them, however, is that the jobs may never come back.

[harpseal]

I have often in the past called for removal of government regulation of business I ahve in the past proposed enterprise zones with minimum regulation and no corporate income tax on the results of American production. These are positive measure I have encouraged. In regards to removing regulation from American buisiness I would be more than happy with that as it si a good start towards competitiveness but it does not erase Chinese tariffs and non tariff restrictions on US exports to that nation. It does not address strategic defense industries offshoring that we can not afford as a nation.

Now if you would like to discuss how to remove all regulation I will be happy to discuss the political feasability of same. If you would like to see Free Markte pronciples as defined by Adam Smith in wealth of nations implemented that is what I support. If you are talking about maintaining ghovernment subsidies for offshore investing (see OPIC) or supporting trade barriers to American products then I will ar against what you propose. If you want to get into a "turd throwing contest I shall abjure.

Now as to your statement that tariffs are Marxist that has been throughly refuted and other than your continuing allegation there is no support for that position as it predates marxism by years. Karl Marx has specifically opposed tariffs as did Stalin and Lenin.

[EverOnward]

So ICPAC is the source for your numbers? Why would you think an Indiana government funded group is so credible? They're just a bunch of bureaucrats obeying orders.

[MtnMover]

They are, as you well know, inordinately high

A fair statement today, particularly when a worker in China earns 60 cents an hour (according to Senator Hollings). The Mexicans are now complaining about corporations leaving Mexico for lower cost operations. Its called the 'race to the bottom'. The Senator put the Mexican wage at $2.50 per hour. I guess American pay is relatively high by today's international standards. I wonder how many of those foreign laborers invested in the American infrastructure over the last 200 years?

Perhaps it would not be unreasonable to establish an economic policy that would result in a more gradual exposure, not to competition from foreign markets with similar standards of living, but to competition from the low cost labor that can now be exploited in third world developing nations. Americans had built up their own standard of living over time and naturally grew accustomed to it. So what is our obligation to see to it that we and they can remain economically vital?

A gradual exposure to low cost foreign labor would still result in favorable short term profits while enabling families sufficient time to adjust to new realities. In this way, we Americans can remain vital as we continue to invest abroad and purchase lower cost goods. One problem that I see though is that foreign governments now can read American economic strategies on the net. Everyone seems to be taking the same road we are: they build universities and educate the young in the most promising technologies that will generate future returns. They also invest in third world developing nations. At 60 cents an hour, even a small business can afford to pay a student in a third world developing nation while they are attending high school, pay them to go to college, and then hire them to perform work. Who knows, maybe they will become competitive enough to build our nuclear submarines and launch their space vehicles...

[MtnMover]

There are alternatives to capital, Lazamataz. For example, you and I and others could use our constitutionally protected right to assemble on the internet to form a team. Combine that with our constitutionally protected right to engage in a contract and to freely express ourselves by privately sending ideas, software requirements, and developed code back and forth so that together we could build a new IT product or service. A new product could emerge and all we will have invested in it is our time. Instead of venture capital, there is Venture Labor. I know you have to eat during the time you're developing - so use portfolio management techniques. Diversify your labor investment so that part of your time is invested in a new Venture for a risky return on your labor investment. Well, venture capital is risky as well - no? Be creative.

[searchandrecovery]

Clever little boy. You might see something you didn't expect.

A coherent thought from you? An argument you can back up with facts? Reasoning? Momma ain't gonna always be there to bail you out, my little Marxist friend. Let the games begin (perhaps you should get another nick).

[Helms]

My take on this is that US upper echelon academia is doing a shi--y job of producing MBA grads and an excellent job producing nihilistic anti-moral capitalism and a cultural cesspool.

[searchandrecovery]

Terrible when a midget gets in a pissing contest with a giant.

I believe we call this "Delusions of Grandeur". Nice work my socialist friend.

[Lazamataz]

I predict, when we eventually find life on other planets, the Indians will be bitching about outsourcing to Pluto.

Well, have you SEEN what those durned Plutonians charge for a days labor? 2 Pringys! That's because they all live in mud daub houses with no indoor plumbing. Plus you can't get them to speak a word of Earther.

[searchandrecovery]

I've got ghetto kids whose parents have started successful busineses, I've got older divorcees who have started businesses.
Name them (not actual names or states, just the type of biz). How many? How long have these "businesses" been in existence? What is your metric for "success"?

...two or three of my older STUDENTS have done...
What do you teach? Business? Marketing? How much has your "teaching" been involved in the success of these vetnures?

Anyone can come on here and spew bs - how about some facts? Otherwise you're just another LoSer.

[Bluntpoint]

How far does a pringy go?

How many pringys are in a dingaloo?

If a Plutonian went out on town and wanted to have his baccaca really waxed, how much would that set him back? I mean first class, not by some toothless gorgamite.

[Lazamataz]

How far does a pringy go?

As far as you can throw it, baby, and there ain't much gravity on Pluto.

How many pringys are in a dingaloo?

The Altairian Dollar has recently collapsed, the Flanian Pobble bead is only exchangeable for other Flanian Pobble Beads, and the Triganic Pu has its own very special problems. Its exchange rate of eight Ningis to one Pu is simple enough, but since a Ningi is a rubber coin six thousand eight hundred miles along each side, no one has ever collected enough to own one Pu. Ningis are not negotiable currency, because the Galactibanks refuse to deal in fiddling small change. From this basic premise it is very simple to prove that the Galactibanks are also the product of a deranged imagination.

If a Plutonian went out on town and wanted to have his baccaca really waxed, how much would that set him back? I mean first class, not by some toothless gorgamite.

Luckily, this question is not answerable, because Plutonians outlawed possession of a baccaca -- waxed or not -- in the Great Special Hoopty Pants Revolution of 3074. Now, all baccaca are removed from the bodies of all three Plutonian sexes, and held in little jars for checkout provided the Plutonian has the proper forms and signed licenses -- which such forms and licenses are officially banned by the Great Hoozit Paper Form Destruction Act of 2871.

[Bluntpoint]

When the state places a prohibition baccacaulation only bad things can follow.

A mountain of Pu could not make up for loss of this function on the nerve primarily and distally effected.

Virtual baccacaulation in one of the underground densai dens just is not enough.

Restraint of baccacaulant ruined the Zorbiani population after all their brain housing units exploded and led to outsourcing of gini matter to Massachusets.

[RaceBannon]

...(sigh)...

Without capital? Of any kind? You expect me to believe people just up and start companies without any money??

Right.

For what it's worth, my answers to you have been incomplete. I DO have a business of my own, I do CAD at home...but there is no work to do. It is this reason that I see no possible reason to start another company doing the skills I already have for I see negative growth here in this state because all the technologies are being moved out of state.

see the thread I pionged you to about the rally in CT. If GWB and the Repubbies do not wake up, you can guess where votes are going to go!

[Wilhelm Tell]

The Altairian Dollar has recently collapsed, the Flanian Pobble bead is only exchangeable for other Flanian Pobble Beads, and the Triganic Pu has its own very special problems.

Don't Panic!

[Wilhelm Tell]

Previous to this instance that same software had been written here in the United States, the customer would call in on Friday morning and a real software engineers was working on it within the hour, a test fix was usually supplied before the weekend was out and the customer would have shipped their statements on time. Now if you were that customer, would you be happy with your 24 X 7 development support? I have one last comment, I find it interesting that a Japanese company named Toyota can produce a superior car with American workers and the CEO only earns 1.5 million dollars a year and an American company named GM pays their CEO 30 million dollars a year, uses foreign labor and produces cars with twice the number of defects per thousand cars shipped. I personally believe that the real problem in this country is the inept management running our companies, they cost more, create more headaches and redtape and then pass the blame down to the engineers and those doing the real work.

I think your comments are on target. There does seem to be a very unhealthy management culture in many American companies. There tends to be a focus on temporary advantages instead of long-term growth and stability. Too often, cutting costs becomes cutting corners, and soon everyone is putting out fires instead of doing productive work. There is something very wrong when people who carefully built a business over years are dismissed as "old-fashioned" while raiders who buy a company and close it down -- eliminating all the jobs, of course ending the production of whatever the company made, and usually liquidating the physical assets for a fraction of what they are worth -- these people are hailed as business heroes! I am not against the "creative destruction" of the market where resources get re-allocated in a more efficient way. I do think that a lot of people graduate from business school with the hope that they will someday be in a position to dismantle a company for a fast buck. The first question seems to be, "How can I liquidate this company and make a killing?" rather than "How can I take this troubled company and make it more efficient?" Not all destruction is creative!

[jpsb]

This is going to be the election issue and the GOP is going to the the heat. This is a conservative site and the GOP is being ripped to pieces in thread after thread. W and the GOP better wake up fast or thier will be a house cleaning next Nov.

[VOA]

bump

[taxed2death]

I don't know what state you live in but the trades here in CT have been completely decimated by illegals. Plumbing, HVAC-cooling, Auto Body repair, Automotive repair, Carpentry, electrical and on and on have been over-run by illegals.

They drove the price of framing houses down from 16 dollars an hour, to 6 dollars an hour.

Now before some dumb-ass comes along and says this is great for the "consumer"....think about it. Now small business owners are literally FORCED to break the law and hire whole crews of illegals to replace their American citizens, or they'll be priced out of business. You lose your tax base because these scumbags don't pay their fair share of taxes.

I just hired a landscaper to put in $8000.00 of trees in my yard, he showed up the first day to do the estimate with an all American crew, I know, I asked. Then he comes back three weeks later with 6 illegals, ........I told him I'll rip up the contract in 3 seconds if he doesn't get a crew of Americans in here on the job in 4 hours.

Guess what, he did.

All of the entry level / apprentice positions in ALL of the trades in my state are being filled by illegals. ALL OF THEM!


What about the kids graduating from my states trade high school.....they're shit out of luck. The have to get jobs at Burger king.

So be careful out there, the trades are not really a safe haven any more.

[the gillman@blacklagoon.com]

...In time, real estate values will do the same, because at third world wages, no Americans will be able to invest in real estate....

Excellent point and what brings me to this debate. I don't need a job, am retired and heavily invested in choice Real Estate, with good cash reserves. Should be all but invincible.

But if this crap continues much longer, I'm probably going to unload most of it before it crashes too. Bankrupting the citizenry is not a positive for a country no matter what anyone may claim.

[the gillman@blacklagoon.com]

...Terrible when a midget gets in a pissing contest with a giant...


LOL, you're right for the first time, only you've got the roles reversed!