Posted on 07/30/2003 8:19:47 PM PDT by DPB101
Gibson's gaffe. Mel Gibson needs to take a history class. It was the Romans, not the Jews, who were the Christ killers.
The flood of recent articles and publicity on Mel Gibson's forthcoming movie on Jesus' crucifixion have failed to mention the most important point about this controversy: if the movie does tell the truth about the cruelty and brutality of Jesus' crucifixion, it will make it clear that it was the Romans, not the Jews, who are the real "Christ killers".
According to the Christian Bible ( the "New Testament", especially the Gospel of Mark), Jesus, his family, and virtually all of his followers and disciples at the time were Jews. Jesus preached almost exclusively to the Jews ("the multitudes"), who dined and walked with him. It was his popularity with the Jewish people that caused Jesus to be killed by the ruling Roman authorities; and it was Jews who took Jesus off the cross, prepared him for "burial," mourned him, and then got the blame for the crime.
While a small clique of Jewish collaborators in the ruling classes are purported to have urged the Romans on, they had no real political power, all of which was held by the ruling Romans. All accounts make it clear that it was Romans who condemned Jesus to death, tortured him, put a crown of thorns on his head, spat on him, crucified him, even ran him through with a sword, fearing that this popular Jewish reformer with a huge Jewish following was a threat to Roman law and order.
The Romans went on to kill Jesus' closest disciples Peter and Paul, along with countless other Jewish "Christians", and eventually killed or expelled from the region almost all of the Jews, thus setting the stage for 2,000 years of Jewish suffering and persecution, and for the violence and territorial disputes that plague the Holy Land today.
It is unfortunate that Gibson's movie will apparently fail to make it clear who really killed Jesus, and instead will repeat the ancient blood libels that actually contradict the New Testament's account of the murder, and which have been used since that time to stir up hatred for Jesus' own people.
Indeed, the New Testament account of these events could be used to discredit Gibson's movie, which he claims is based on the truthful version of events as set forth in the Christian bible.
"Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself."
I never thought of it either until 'lizma' mentioned her strict Catholic upbringing and that she never heard any Christian say Jews killed Christ. As she points out, it is a liberal whine.
A good one too. My HS and town was 50% Catholic. I never heard anyone say it. I assumed Catholics were saying it because liberals told me, repeatedly, it was a regular thing Catholics said about Jews. Funny how what people tell you is said outside of your hearing can be more credible than one's own experience.
you talkin to me?..Are you talkin to me.. Well, I'm the only one here..
Naw, now I can't wait to see this movie! Isn't this the one where the Jews kill Christ .... I read all about it in Jewsweek Magazine...
Rome ruled Palestine ( their name for Israael, BTW ) and the Jews had absolutely NO say so over any of the laws. Jesus said " RENDER UNTO CAESAR ...", because Caesar WAS Rome and the head of the empire. The ONLY person, who could render the sentence of crucifixtion, was Pontius Pilate.
The Ancient Roman Empire was pretty easy about the religious practices, the peoples in the places they ruled over followed, with one caveat. They demanded that those peoples also acept their Caesars as gods and follow their laws. The Jews, being the oNLY monotheists, threw a HUGE monkey wrench into that mix, as they refused to accept any god but GOD; hence a lot of the friction.
During and even predating Jesus' time on earth, there were various sects within Judaism; some more militant than others. This was a problem for the Romans, since the Jewish Messiah, was , acording to Jewish traditions, supposed to come to fight . There were many " leaders ", at this time, doing just that ... fighting the Romans. They had to be put down.
But, the Jews had NO power, none whatsoever, in telling Pilate who or how to kill anyone.
Those Christians in today's society that seek political power to impose Christian values are doing nothing more than screaming "Barrabas!" once again, and leaving the Savior to be crucified. They are the Jews sacrificing their true Savior for a chance to overthrow Rome. But our duty is and always will be to humbly spread the good news and let the Holy Spirit deal with the results.
I beg to differ. The ADL at this juncture means just one man: Abe Foxman. He saw an opportunity to scare some ignorant old Jewish people into giving him money. Foxman is a "show me the money" kind of guy and I doubt that he knows from a watered-down modern interpretation of the gospels one way or the other. Don't confuse Foxman with an ideological liberal or an ideological anything else. He is trading on the reputation of the old ADL of B'nai Brith to make money.
I'd say he's using Mel to generate funds, and doesn't mind giving Mel some free publicity in exchange. Not that Mel would ever see it that way. Foxman is a stinker and a hustler, but not a "typical liberal".
The Catholic bishop's group, on the other hand, dislike Mel over the issue of the Latin Mass and general political conservatism. I don't think that anything as deep as New Testament interpretation motivates them.
I haven't actually seen the movie yet, but doesn't it depict the Romans as carrying out the execution? I know this is what the New Testament says.
Was Jesus framed by the Sadducees who had commandeered the running of the Temple as the New Testament says? I'm not a Christian, so I don't believe that as a matter of faith. But it's possible given all the other evidence, and in any case no present day sect of Jews (or even Foxman) are Sadducees.
I can't stand the preachy, condescending, lecturing tone of voice these damn politically correct leftists put on in order to tell us what to do. Of course Jews played a role in the execution of Jesus. For the most part, they didn't like him because he was stirring s--- up. Jesus was a controversial figure back then, and some people really didn't like him. The idea that there is a "blood guilt," that all Jews are guilty for the murder of Jesus--that is anti-Semitic. The mere fact that most historical accounts point to a bunch of the Jews wanting Jesus dead and cooperating with the Romans to kill him... that's just a fact, and nothing more.
OJ Simpson murdered Nicole Brown Simpson and Ronald Goldman. Does that mean all black people have blood guilt? Of course not. Is pointing out that OJ killed them racist? Of course not. Pointing out that a long time ago a bunch of Jews killed a trouble-making Jew is not racist.
So, you're blaming Mel Gibson for what the flood of spewers say.
Moron.
You mean WERE responsible, don't you?
Yes. I stand corrected. Thank you.
Whovever wrote this article is trying desparately to rewrite history. I will prove from all gospel accounts that it was the Jews who arrested Jesus, put him on trial and condemned Him to death for 'blashpemy', abused Him, and then coerced Pilate through a huge, angry mob, to crucify Jeusus. Pilate made no less than five separate attempts to save Jesus from the Jews, but when they became unruly and threatened to take the matter to Ceasar, Pilate finally relented. Read what the Bible records:
"Upon this Pilate sought to release him, but the Jews cried out, "If you release this man, you are not Caesar's friend; every one who makes himself a king sets himself against Caesar." (John 19:12)
Now read the rest of the dialogue:
"When Pilate heard these words, he brought Jesus out and sat down on the judgment seat at a place called The Pavement, and in Hebrew, Gabbatha. Now it was the day of Preparation of the Passover; it was about the sixth hour. He said to the Jews, "Behold your King!" They cried out, "Away with him, away with him, crucify him!" Pilate said to them, "Shall I crucify your King?" The chief priests answered, "We have no king but Caesar." Then he handed him over to them to be crucified". (John 19: 13-16)
Now, on several prior occasions the Jews tried to stone Jesus, push Him off a cliff, and arrest Him for the crime of 'blasphemy', punishable by death according to Jewish law. Read on:
"The Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, "I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of these do you stone me? The Jews answered him, 'It is not for a good work that we stone you but for blasphemy; because you, being a man, make yourself God." (John 10: 31-33)
"Again they tried to arrest him, but he escaped from their hands". (John 10:39)
Who arrested Jesus and placed Him on trial, the Jews or the Romans? The Bible tells us that it was the Jews:
"While he was still speaking, Judas came, one of the twelve, and with him a great crowd with swords and clubs, from the chief priests and the elders of the people". (Mathew 26:47)
Did the Jews take Jesus to Pilate for condemnation, or to their own their own high priest Caiaphas? Read what the Bible says:
So the band of soldiers and their captain and the officers of the Jews seized Jesus and bound him. First they led him to Annas; for he was the father-in-law of Caiaphas, who was high priest that year. It was Caiaphas who had given counsel to the Jews that it was expedient that one man should die for the people". <(John 18:12-14)
Pilate tried desparately to release Jesus from the mob of Jews, for he sensed His innocense:
"Pilate then called together the chief priests and the rulers and the people, and said to them, "You brought me this man as one who was perverting the people; and after examining him before you, behold, I did not find this man guilty of any of your charges against him" (Luke 23: 13-14)
Pilate tries once again to release Jesus, again proclaiming His innocence, but the Jews persist in forcing Christ's death:
"Behold, nothing deserving death has been done by him; I will therefore chastise him and release him." But they all cried out together, "Away with this man, and release to us Barabbas" (Luke 23: 16-18)
Pilate, not wanting to condemn an innocent man, yet again attempts to save Jesus' life:
"Pilate addressed them once more, desiring to release Jesus; but they shouted out, "Crucify, crucify him!" (Luke 23: 20-21)
Pontius Pilate is still not ready to give up Jesus to the Jews, and he pleads for Jesus' life one more time:
"A third time Pilate said to them, "Why, what evil has he done? I have found in him no crime deserving death; I will therefore chastise him and release him." But they were urgent, demanding with loud cries that he should be crucified. And their voices prevailed." (Luke 23: 22-23)
So we see in the gospel of John and Luke that it was the Jews who betrayed, arrested, tried, and unrelentingly demanded the death of Jesus, against the strong wishes of the Roman Procurator, Pontius Pilate. Now let's see what Mathew records about the event:
"While he was still speaking, Judas came, one of the twelve, and with him a great crowd with swords and clubs, from the chief priests and the elders of the people". (Mathew 26:47)
"Then those who had seized Jesus led him to Caiaphas the high priest, where the scribes and the elders had gathered---Now the chief priests and the whole council sought false testimony against Jesus that they might put him to death", (Mathew 26:57-59)
It was the Jews who condemned Jesus, spat in His face and ridiculed Him, as Mathew records:
" Then the high priest tore his robes, and said, "He has uttered blasphemy. Why do we still need witnesses? You have now heard his blasphemy. What is your judgment?" They answered, "He deserves death." Then they spat in his face, and struck him; and some slapped him, saying, "Prophesy to us, you Christ! Who is it that struck you?" (Mathew 26: 65-67)
Finally, here are the most self-condemning words ever spoken by mankind, and they even carry a condemnation for indeterminate generations to come, for obvious reasons:
"And Pilate said, "Why, what evil has he done?" But they shouted all the more, "Let him be crucified." So when Pilate saw that he was gaining nothing, but rather that a riot was beginning, he took water and washed his hands before the crowd, saying, "I am innocent of this righteous man's blood; see to it yourselves." AND ALL THE PEOPLE ANSWERED, "HIS BLOOD BE ON US, AND ON OUR CHILDREN!" (Mathew 27: 23-25)
Yep.
It was Jesus' destiny to be crucified, from the day he was born.
It doesn't make much sense to say "Jesus died of old age for my sins."
So you actually think Christ would object to His followers being called Christians?
Give me a break. It is perfectly accurate to call Stephen a Christian.
Gum
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