Gibson's gaffe. Mel Gibson needs to take a history class.

Jewsweek ^ | 7/31/03 | Regenstein

[DPB101]

Gibson's gaffe. Mel Gibson needs to take a history class. It was the Romans, not the Jews, who were the Christ killers.

The flood of recent articles and publicity on Mel Gibson's forthcoming movie on Jesus' crucifixion have failed to mention the most important point about this controversy: if the movie does tell the truth about the cruelty and brutality of Jesus' crucifixion, it will make it clear that it was the Romans, not the Jews, who are the real "Christ killers".

According to the Christian Bible ( the "New Testament", especially the Gospel of Mark), Jesus, his family, and virtually all of his followers and disciples at the time were Jews. Jesus preached almost exclusively to the Jews ("the multitudes"), who dined and walked with him. It was his popularity with the Jewish people that caused Jesus to be killed by the ruling Roman authorities; and it was Jews who took Jesus off the cross, prepared him for "burial," mourned him, and then got the blame for the crime.

While a small clique of Jewish collaborators in the ruling classes are purported to have urged the Romans on, they had no real political power, all of which was held by the ruling Romans. All accounts make it clear that it was Romans who condemned Jesus to death, tortured him, put a crown of thorns on his head, spat on him, crucified him, even ran him through with a sword, fearing that this popular Jewish reformer with a huge Jewish following was a threat to Roman law and order.

The Romans went on to kill Jesus' closest disciples Peter and Paul, along with countless other Jewish "Christians", and eventually killed or expelled from the region almost all of the Jews, thus setting the stage for 2,000 years of Jewish suffering and persecution, and for the violence and territorial disputes that plague the Holy Land today.

It is unfortunate that Gibson's movie will apparently fail to make it clear who really killed Jesus, and instead will repeat the ancient blood libels that actually contradict the New Testament's account of the murder, and which have been used since that time to stir up hatred for Jesus' own people.

Indeed, the New Testament account of these events could be used to discredit Gibson's movie, which he claims is based on the truthful version of events as set forth in the Christian bible.

[King Prout]

(please see 135)
again, sorry.

[rwfromkansas]

True. It also foretells in Romans the Jews eventually being brought back into the fold. What a glorious day that will be.

[King Prout]

yep - that's #3 on list.
first 2 are food and shower.
good night.

[rmlew]

"the officers" and leaders were appointees of Rome.
It is like calling Marshal Petain a legitimate leader of France.

[adam_az]

Pope Pius IX was the last pontiff to advocate putting European Jews into ghettoes. He likened them to dogs.

Here is a quote from Pope John XXIII

"The mark of Cain is stamped upon our foreheads. Across the centuries, our brother Abel has lain in blood which we drew, and shed tears we caused by forgetting Thy love. Forgive us, Lord, for the curse we falsely attributed to their name as Jews. Forgive us for crucifying Thee a second time in their flesh. For we knew not what we did."

This isn't slander - this is HISTORY.


The Vatican II Declaration on Relations with Non Christian Religions, Nostra Aetate (http://www.hismercy.ca/content/church_docs/vatican2/v2non.html) says:
-
True, the Jewish authorities and those who followed their lead pressed for the death of Christ;(13) still, what happened in His passion cannot be charged against all the Jews, without distinction, then alive, nor against the Jews of today. Although the Church is the new people of God, the Jews should not be presented as rejected or accursed by God, as if this followed from the Holy Scriptures. All should see to it, then, that in catechetical work or in the preaching of the word of God they do not teach anything that does not conform to the truth of the Gospel and the spirit of Christ.

Furthermore, in her rejection of every persecution against any man, the Church, mindful of the patrimony she shares with the Jews and moved not by political reasons but by the Gospel's spiritual love, decries hatred, persecutions, displays of anti-Semitism, directed against Jews at any time and by anyone.

Besides, as the Church has always held and holds now, Christ underwent His passion and death freely, because of the sins of men and out of infinite love, in order that all may reach salvation. It is, therefore, the burden of the Church's preaching to proclaim the cross of Christ as the sign of God's all-embracing love and as the fountain from which every grace flows.
-

That's where it was overturned.

[rmlew]

Jesus was killed over Passover, against Jewish law.
He was Crusified, against Jewish law.
Untill you know Jewish law, don't defend historical innacuracy.

[Jmouse007]

Sorry, the Pharisees in fact strongly believed in bodily resurrection. However, the Sadducees did not believe in the supernatural and strongly denied the doctrine of the resurrection. This is why they were “SAD YOU SEE. This is evident from the passages below:

"On that day some Sadducees (who say there is no resurrection) came to Jesus and questioned Him," Matthew 22:23

"Some Sadducees (who say that there is no resurrection) came* to Jesus, and began questioning Him, saying,..." Mark 12:18

"Now there came to Him some of the Sadducees (who say that there is no resurrection)" Luke 20:27

The apostle Paul used this disagreement between the Pharisees and Sadducees over belief in the resurrection to his advantage and it nearly led to a riot because of the strongly held views of the opposing sides.

"6But perceiving that one group were Sadducees and the other Pharisees, Paul began crying out in the Council, “Brethren, I am a Pharisee, a son of Pharisees; I am on trial for the hope and resurrection of the dead!”

7As he said this, there occurred a dissension between the Pharisees and Sadducees, and the assembly was divided.

8For the Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, nor an angel, nor a spirit, but the Pharisees acknowledge them all.

9And there occurred a great uproar; and some of the scribes of the Pharisaic party stood up and began to argue heatedly, saying, “We find nothing wrong with this man; suppose a spirit or an angel has spoken to him?” 10And as a great dissension was developing, the £commander was afraid Paul would be torn to pieces by them and ordered the troops to go down and take him away from them by force, and bring him into the barracks." (Acts 23:6-8)

As for killing Christ, the Jews would have done it themselves if they could have but their nation had been subjugated to Rome. Although Rome allowed them to have a great deal of autonomy, Rome alone reserved for itself the right to carry out capital punishment. That is why the Jews HAD to go to Pilate (a gentile no less) in order to accomplish their evil plans for Jesus; because it was against Roman law for them to carry out the sentence of death themselves. Had they done so, these so-called "religious leaders" would have had to answer to Rome! This is why we read the following:

"Now when morning came, all the chief priests and the elders of the people conferred together against Jesus to put Him to death; 2and they bound Him, and led Him away and delivered Him to Pilate the governor." Matthew 27:1 - 2

One interesting side note, Jesus was tried 6 different times the night before he was crucified! It was against Jewish law to try an individual at night. So much for these religious leaders "following the rules/obeying the law. They wanted the Lord Jesus Christ dead because he was a threat to them and their positions. We are told their motives in John 11:48 - 53. This took place AFTER Jesus rose Lazarus from the dead!

48“If we let Him go on like this, all men will believe in Him, and the Romans will come and take away both our place and our nation.”

49But one of them, Caiaphas, who was high priest that year, said to them, “You know nothing at all,

50nor do you take into account that it is expedient for you that one man die for the people, and that the whole nation not perish.”

51Now he did not say this on his own initiative, but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus was going to die for the nation,

52and not for the nation only, but in order that He might also gather together into one the children of God who are scattered abroad.

53So from that day on they planned together to kill Him."

Who killed Jesus, the Jews, the Romans?...

In reality, I did, you did; our sins placed Him on that cross and Jesus went there willingly, the just for the unjust, in order that He might bring us to God the Father, IF we would but put our faith in Him.

“No one has taken it (i.e. His life) away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This commandment I received from My Father.” John 10:18

"He who knew no sin was made sin for us, inorder that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him" 2Corinthians 5:21

[djf]

That's a very interesting link. So far, I've found references to Christianity being "a false religion" and "idolatry".

[rmlew]

The site is the mirror of Jews for Jesus.
It is a bunch of ex-Christians.

[PFKEY]

who really killed Jesus

We are all guilty.

But thanks be to God that he would allow us to murder his only begotten Son so that we might have a home with Him in heaven when this life has passed.

[CyberAnt]

It was both! The Roman soldiers carried out the act, but it was the Jews who approved the sentence. Actually, it was all of us!

[razorbak]

The crucifixion of Christ was a joint operation by Gentiles and Jews. That is what the movie will show if it is as close to the biblical account as I've heard it is. The only reason the Jews religious leaders did not kill Jesus themselves, is because the Romans did not allow them to inflict capitol punishment. The Jewish religious leaders, however, put pressure on Pilate to do their deed for them. But Pilate could have said no. Even the Jewish Bible tells the stories of Jewish prophets who were persecuted and sometimes killed by their own Jewish brethren. Every people group on earth, at some point in their history has wrongly condemned and executed someone.

[razorbak]

The New Testament also records that most of the persecution of the early church was conducted by Jewish religious leaders, not by the Romans [at least not until later]. BUT, most of the first Christians being persecuted were Jews themselves. So how is that anti-semitic if Jews are persecuting other Jews with whom they disagree?

[adam_az]

Um, ever hear of Torquemada?

1492: Tomas de Torquemada, the Grand Inquisitor of the Spanish Inquisition engineered a blood libel case in La Guardia, Spain. Jews who had converted to Christianity were accused and tortured. They confessed to helping the chief rabbi to abuse and crucify a Christian child. 7

Inquisition? Forced conversion?

Ghettos?

Pogroms?

expulsion?

Jews expelled from England (1290) - for FOUR CENTURIES.
Jews expelled from France (1306 and 1394)
Jews expelled from Hungary (1349 and 1360)
Jews expelled from Germany (1348 and 1498)
Jews expelled from Austria (1421)
Jews expelled from Lithuania (1445 and 1495)
Jews expelled from Spain (1492)
Jews expelled from Portugal (1497)


1451: Pope Nicholas V appointed John of Capistrano to organize the Inquisition of the Jews. John repeated the old charges of ritual murder and host desecration.

John Chrysostom, the Patriarch of Constantinople:

"Jews are the most worthless of men - they are lecherous, greedy, rapacious - they are perfidious murderers of Christians, they worship the devil, their religion is a sickness ... The Jews are the odious assassins of Christ and for killing god there is no expiation, no indulgence, no pardon. Christians may never cease vengeance. The Jews must live in servitude forever. It is incumbent on all Christians to hate the Jews."

In the 1100's, Jews were forced to wear an identifying garment, such as a funny hat or a BADGE.

They also killed Jews over myths that they stole communion wafers in order to torture them.

Every Jewish resident of Berlitz was burned alive over an accusation of wafer torture.

There were special taxes for Jews in Germany, such as a tax for not joining the army they were not allowed to join anyway.

Read about the debate between Pablo Christiani and Nachimanides (Ramban), and Ramban's expulsion.

I could go on and on and on.

[Burkeman1]

No you can't as you are either a purposeful distorter or just an anti Catholic. Comparing 1451 to 1492 and Torquemada? You have no understanding of the inquisition or any of it's stages.

[Bad Dog2]

You all seem to forget one thing. From the beginning, God (Jesus) knew that Jesus' death would occur. It was all part of God's perfect plan. How else could all of mankind be offered salvation. So does it matter who or what was the tool? Perhaps the killers of Christ should be feted instead of condemned. Without them God's perfect plan would not have come to fruition.

It seems very strange to me that that a religion based in the principle that all can obtain salvation condemns the very race from which their saviour came. Surely this must be an anathema to God. Fie on any Christian who condemns anyone for they have not even learned the most important of Christ's lessons: forgiveness.

[Rodney King]

So, the liberals erringly criticze a movie they havent't seen, and based on that Mel needs to take a history class? WTF is wrong with this man's brain? (the author of this article, that is).

[jwh_Denver]

I, Petronski, crucified Christ.

What do the Scriptures say on who killed Jesus Christ?

"1Th 2:14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they [have] of the Jews:
1Th 2:15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:"

The Jews killed Jesus Christ. Not you, the Romans, the Jews killed Christ. On a spiritual level Scriptures say the "princes" of this world killed him:

"1Co 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known [it], they would not have crucified the Lord of glory."

The princes of this world refers to ruling devil spirits including the devil himself.

There are just too many Bible software programs on what the Scriptures say than to offer an opinion without backing it up with Scripture.

[USMMA_83]

You are fighting a losing battle here. For some, the present day Bible is a historical document. Never mind that it's been edited over, and over again. Never mind that it loses alot in its translation into English.