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Mystery goo jar opened
The Sun (U.K.) ^ | 07/29/03 | GARY O’SHEA

Posted on 07/28/2003 8:14:00 PM PDT by Pokey78

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To: zarf
Wow, this wins the obscure comment award for the week.

The competition for this award is always fierce, but I'm a gritty competitor.

Do I get a yellow jersey?

41 posted on 07/29/2003 6:11:16 AM PDT by southernnorthcarolina ("Shut up," he explained.)
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To: AnAmericanMother
From Basic Tinsmithing:

The bits and pieces of tin work that have been recovered from fur posts are usually so rusted that it is impossible to determine what the object was originally.

42 posted on 07/29/2003 6:27:23 AM PDT by Consort
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To: AnAmericanMother
From Ohio State University Fact Sheet: A History of Packaging

The process of tin plating was discovered in Bohemia in 1200 A.D. and cans of iron, coated with tin, were known in Bavaria as early as the 14th century. However, the plating process was a closely guarded secret until the 1600s. Thanks to the Duke of Saxony, who stole the technique, it progressed across Europe to France and the United Kingdom by the early 19th century.

43 posted on 07/29/2003 6:40:12 AM PDT by Consort
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To: Consort
The bits and pieces of tin work that have been recovered from fur posts are usually so rusted that it is impossible to determine what the object was originally.

That's why these Romano-British sites are so important.

The soil along the Thames is generally a very waterlogged silty deposit over what's called London Clay. I haven't looked at a soil map for Southwark, but that's the low side and I imagine it's very waterlogged. Any Roman stuff that is under the water table is beautifully preserved in this anaerobic environment. The best sources traditionally have been votive or ordinary well shafts that go down to the water table - even leather shoes, wood, and other stuff that ordinarily rots have been recovered (including a female gladiator's leather bikini, I kid you not!) Tin would be protected from corrosion by this environment.

44 posted on 07/29/2003 6:44:20 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother (. . . there is nothing new under the sun.)
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To: Consort
Tin plating is quite different from tin working. That involves coating another metal with a thin film of tin. It's done now by electroplate, but the earlier process must have been done with the tin in a molten state.

AFAIK, the Romans didn't tin plate. But they, and the Phoenicians, and the Egyptians, and other Mediterranean peoples, did work tin and trade in it for centuries. The Phoenicians reportedly got a lot of their tin from Cornwall. . . and that was from the 11th c. B.C. forward!

45 posted on 07/29/2003 6:51:34 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother (. . . there is nothing new under the sun.)
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To: Howlin; Ed_NYC; MonroeDNA; widgysoft; Springman; Timesink; dubyaismypresident; Grani; coug97; ...
Just damn.

If you want on the new list, FReepmail me. This IS a high-volume PING list...

46 posted on 07/29/2003 6:53:35 AM PDT by mhking
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To: Denver Ditdat
How long has tin been worked? Was it commonly available two millennia ago?

Only about four thousand years at the least and yes it was.

Saw a show on history or discovery about a Roman coffin made out of sand molded tin plates. Very neat.

47 posted on 07/29/2003 9:00:21 AM PDT by Harmless Teddy Bear (Under advice from my lawyer I will now be known as Mostly Harmless Teddy Bear)
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To: Snidely Whiplash
You know, it's not a sin to suggest that historical sites should be preserved for the sake of their mere existence.

Snidely, there is not a spot on earth that does not have some kind of historical significance. Every piece of dry ground below a certain altitude (and some above it) has been camped on, fought on, built on, lived on. That is the way it is. Scrap away about two feet of dirt and you will usually find something of historical significance.

This site is simply not unusual enough to make it worth saving. It is not like England has a lack of Roman ruins.

48 posted on 07/29/2003 9:09:22 AM PDT by Harmless Teddy Bear (Under advice from my lawyer I will now be known as Mostly Harmless Teddy Bear)
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To: Snidely Whiplash
"You know, it's not a sin to suggest that historical sites should be preserved for the sake of their mere existence."

I agree. Personally, I think it's terrible to let a shopping mall be built over a site like that.
49 posted on 07/29/2003 9:10:51 AM PDT by honeygrl
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To: Fred Mertz
Some kind of lubricant? See Kobe Bryant/Anal Sex chain.
50 posted on 07/29/2003 9:13:47 AM PDT by ReaganWarrior
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To: nopardons
"I have always been fascinated by ancient civilizations abd nowhere, in my readings or rumagings through museums, have I ever heard / seen a screw to tin jar, from this time period. "

Maybe that's part of the reason it's so fascinating to them? It's not a hard concept for them to have come up with so why wouldn't they have them?
51 posted on 07/29/2003 9:14:00 AM PDT by honeygrl
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To: nopardons
I mean the mucus trail slugs leave behind. Not pretty. :\
52 posted on 07/29/2003 9:53:23 AM PDT by 4mycountry (Over-achiever extraordinare!)
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To: Harmless Teddy Bear; Snidely Whiplash
There's a protocol for preserving excavation sites like this.

London has been continuously occupied since at least Roman times. It's the last feasible crossing before the Thames estuary, and all the ancient roads point straight to London or Westminster.

Of course, everybody figured that London had a lot of stuff underground, but it wasn't until the Blitz tore everything up that people realized just how much there is. Especially in the old City of London (between the Tower and Temple Bar, more or less) you're going to hit remains of some kind any time you put a shovel into the ground. Layers and layers of stuff, all the way down to undisturbed clay, and into the clay in the case of ancient foundations and wells.

So when a structure is going to be built, archaeologists do a preliminary survey and then stand by while excavations are under way. If anything unusual is turned up, they record it and if possible remove and preserve it. You can read some typical reports on this sort of excavation here.

The only case in which a construction project would be stopped or altered for an archaeological find would be if the find was (1) unique (2) not removable AND (3) of great significance. Even a unique site like the Temple of Mithras was removed stone by stone and reconstructed around the corner. Best example of something left in place that I can think of off-hand is the large section of the old Roman Wall that is preserved just southwest of the church of St. Giles Cripplegate, by the Barbican. It was left in place and exposed, with stairs so that you can go down and take a good look at it. Part of a watch tower and a corner of the wall. It's pretty neat.

53 posted on 07/29/2003 10:17:02 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother (. . . there is nothing new under the sun.)
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To: honeygrl; nopardons
Here's a better shot of the jar . . . you can see that it doesn't have a screw top, just the usual old press fitting. Also, at least to me, the rounded edge of the cover looks irregular enough to be hand worked rather than machine made.


54 posted on 07/29/2003 10:31:55 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother (. . . there is nothing new under the sun.)
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To: Consort
I am always astounded by what the Romans came up with and how contemporary it all looks. There was an exhibit of objects from daily life in Pompeii here in L.A. several years ago and the plumbing fixtures, gears and construction equipment looked eerily up to date. If their civilisation hadn't imploded they would have had electricity by the 9th century.
55 posted on 07/29/2003 12:27:40 PM PDT by Nick5
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Just adding this to the GGG catalog, not sending a general distribution. Similar topics have been pinged before.
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56 posted on 06/06/2005 9:56:27 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (FR profiled updated Tuesday, May 10, 2005. Fewer graphics, faster loading.)
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57 posted on 07/02/2010 4:50:48 PM PDT by SunkenCiv ("Fools learn from experience. I prefer to learn from the experience of others." -- Otto von Bismarck)
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