Similarities Between the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire and the United States

I do not pretend to call the Roman Empire the United States, but it seems to me there are some similarities as if history is repeating itself.

There are some adherents to single factors, but more people think Rome fell because of a combination of such factors as Christianity, decadence, lead, monetary, and military problems. Even the rise of Islam is proposed by some who think the Fall of Rome happened at Constantinople.

Since not all viewpoints are available on the Internet, this list of theories about the Fall of Rome is limited:

"But the decline of Rome was the natural and inevitable effect of immoderate greatness. Prosperity ripened the principle of decay; the causes of destruction multiplied with the extent of conquest; and, as soon as time or accident had removed the artificial supports, the stupendous fabric yielded to the pressure of its own weight.... The victorious legions, who, in distant wars, acquired the vices of strangers and mercenaries, first oppressed the freedom of the republic, and afterwards violated the majesty of the purple. The emperors, anxious for their personal safety and the public peace, were reduced to the base expedient of corrupting the discipline which rendered them alike formidable to their sovereign and to the enemy; the vigour of the military government was relaxed, and finally dissolved, by the partial institutions of Constantine; and the Roman world was overwhelmed by a deluge of Barbarians."

Because the East survived when the West collapsed, institutional weakness and barbarian invasions, conditions common to both halves, are insufficient explanation of Rome's Fall. Instead Elton sees the cause in financial difficulties only the West faced. The best single explanation would be poor leadership rather than military failure.

The other side of Roman decadence was the dole. Millions spent on bread (including pork by the end of the second century) and circuses for the non-working poor. Barbarians ruled Rome and even when a Roman, Diocletian, regained control, he was influenced by the East. With Constantine came a barbaric Christianity and the move of the Empire's center from Rome to Constantinople.

Site reviews the theories of others to provide three single-issue models for the collapse: economic (lack of circulating currency and trade deficit, and other factors not clearly economic like environmental change and decaying infrastructure), military (citizenship granted to all reduced the incentive to join the army), and gradual transformation (it never fell or fell to Islam).

Chapter from Antiquity Online about the division of the Empire into East and West and the reign, including conversion of Constantine.

Chapter from Antiquity Online about the fifth century Empire showing the role of Vandals and religious controversies in the decline of Rome.

Richard Hooker marks the Fall during the reign of Diocletian (284-305) when the Empire was split into two halves.

A bibliography of sources since the nineteenth century that have suggested lead poisoning led to the Fall of Rome.

Economic decay through hoarding of bullion, barbarian looting of the treasury, and trade deficit; military decay through attrition and disorganization; lack of a military leader.

I see currently in the United States: Trade Deficit, the Invasion of Barbarians (illegal immigrants), Division of the Nation (Republicans and Democrats), and Financial Problems as very similar to the Decline of the Roman Empire.

Hogwash.

Liberal America-hating hogwash.

The United States is no where nears a decline and fall like Rome.

We have small blips in the economy. A blip is not a fall. A blip is not a decline. The only thing in our history that came close to an economic collapse was the Great Depression and the decision to use socialism to fix it. Yet we endured. The Great Depression was nothing even close to a Somalian-type disaster. And we have learned a lesson from the Great Depression have many safeguards in place.

We have the greatest military in world history. Nothing on this planet comes even close. There are concerns that enemies may have WMD, but this fear is also overblown. If an enemy uses some on a population center, then what can they do next. We are virtually un-invadable, at least by conventional means. We can be hurt, but we cannot be occupied.

Complacency? Decadence? Of course it exists. And its getting worse. But captitalism and conservatism will always keep these in check. Despite rampant liberalism, we are the most conservative country in the world. And the popularity of the Free Republic is evidence that liberalism doesn't have the stranglehold that some think that it might.

We are a wealthy nation. And as a wealthy nation, we can afford to pay for certain safeguards such as consumer protection and certain environmental safeguards. Yes, I know that these have become excessive lately, but certain basic safeguards are necessary to maintain our longterm health.

We have the most diverse population possible, yet we have relatively minor conflicts between races/religions. We had a war between Northern and Southern attitudes. We survived that. Our pride is nation-wide. Europe (including Rome), on the other hand, is not so well behaved. Countries that are the size of small States have been at each others throats countless times. Their pride (or whats left of it) is concentrated in relatively small groups, thus they clash frequently. We have the geographical benefit of being phyically separated from the misbehaving children of Europe (and every 30 years or so, we go over there and hand out some spankings and make them sit in the corner).

We are vigilant. We do not appease. And we have the greatest Constitution ever written. We are not in decline.

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Note: this topic is from deep in the FRchives. Blast from the Past. Just adding to the catalog, not sending a general distribution. To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.

Note: this topic is from deep in the FRchives.