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The perfect IT Education? (IT/Nerd Alert)

Posted on 07/27/2003 9:24:31 AM PDT by BushCountry

Below is a typical Associate Level Degree program in Information Systems.   Quite frankly, I think programs like these programs are a disservice to communities they serve.  I also firmly believe that improper education and training of America's IT personal has hurt the economy and has made a major contribution to the decline in IT jobs.  Yes, I know the bubble burst, but companies are not pushing forward aggressively when it comes to IT.  So many companies got burnt by poorly trained IT personal and their empty promises that they are running scared. I value and respect the input of the people on this site, so I ask, "If you could develop/design a perfect Information System AA degree program what would it contain?" 

My thoughts are presented in italics.  Please feel free to rename courses, add/subtract ideas, and give me your two cents worth.

Introduction to computers and computing.  This course should be designed with a few thoughts in mind;  How to keep my computers/network secure.  How to maintain/optimize the units where the operator is the bottleneck.  Company-wide hardware purchasing decisions and cost benefit analysis of upgrades.  Basically, I am saying that these programs should skip 90% of what they teach about the internal operation of the computer (no text book is up-to-date and the information for the most part is laughable).

Computer programming and problem solving.  This course should be based on html, html help, java script, and SQL.

Basic spreadsheet design and development. Every spreadsheet should be designed and developed toward decisions that an IT personal makes daily.  For instance how to calculate company-wide hardware/software purchases, IT labor costs and benefits, and cost benefit analysis of upgrades.

An introduction to graphic design software.  Is this really necessary?  If necessary, this course should use software that produces flowcharts, network cabling diagrams, and how to optimize graphics for the web/databases.

Operating systems concepts; database concepts and applications.  Every computer should be a multi-boot operating system machine with connectivity issues discussed. The connectivity issues;  Security, Internet, LAN, WAN, and Terminal Services.  Database concepts and applications should relate to the current technologies for data warehousing, access times and bandwidth requirements, and backup procedures.

Database programming; installation and maintenance of computer hardware.  The database design projects should include a fictional company employee database (should allow the employee to change information as required, e.g. address info, health insurance, and dependents), computer / software / network inventory, knowledge base of common networking troubleshooting and connectivity issues relating to this fictional company, and company policy/handbook. 

Computer training and support techniques.  Cost benefit analysts can not be stressed enough.  Network and computer security, privacy and computer use policy issues, and remote administration/repair of PCs.

Systems analysis and design.  Internal structured cabling, network communications technologies, supporting remote users, firewalls, routers, gateways, and designing a secure system. 

Design and implementation of a systems project.  One design project of a new 500 workforce fictional company.  The layout of the three building complex, server software scheme and department level breakdown should be completed by the instructor.  Students should be required to make the purchasing decisions for the purchase of Network Servers, Switches/Routers, Structure Cabling and Racks,  Personal Computers, and networking/pc software.

Electives (Degree - 2 courses) - Students are required to take a 3-credit-hour humanities/fine arts course and a 3-credit-hour social/behavioral science course.  For once, I am at a loss for words.  These courses are suppose to make the IT professional a well-rounded individual.  I would like to find a more practical use for these 6 credit hours. Any suggestions?

English (Degree - 2 courses) - These courses emphasize the writing process and professional communication skills. 
First course should be technical writing, practical proposals and grants.  Second course should be creating effective web documents, e.g. HTML Help and Employee Computer Use Handbooks.

Math (Degree - 1 course) - Survey of topics including sets, logic, probability, statistics, matrices, mathematical systems, geometry, topology, mathematics of finance, and modeling. 
Math course topics should relate to Total Cost of Ownership (TCO) and cost benefit analysts of everything from increase network bandwidth to speeding up PC by adding memory.  In other words, practical math for the network and system administrators.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; Technical; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: education; information; it; technology
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To: BushCountry
Don't bother. All these jobs will be in India or Russia in another five years.
61 posted on 07/27/2003 11:31:01 AM PDT by Im Your Huckleberry
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To: zeromus
This isn't about the client, since we dont have client's paying us for custom products - we have a product line, of which VB is used for user interface layers, which are part of not just a software package, but a hardware package as well. We dont' write code that is given to a client.

Any code written needs to be maintanable, since a year from now I, or another coder, may need to go back and fix, update, or otherwise modify what was written - and it's pain in the a$$ if you have to waste time trying to figure out what the original coder did, or why they did something, because they neglected to comment the code or otherwise document it etc...

Well documented, well-structured code should be the norm, not just 'if the client is paying for it'.
62 posted on 07/27/2003 11:31:23 AM PDT by Chad Fairbanks (Some days, it's just not worth gnawing through the straps...)
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To: djf
Ya got a lotta purple-haired dudes out there sitting in front of keyboards for days at a time, couldn't code a binary sort if their life depended on it.

That's true, but I would be more impressed with someone who knew of an API that actually performed the bimary sort, rather than someone who reinvented the wheel. And the fact is, with today's languages, you shouldn't have to code basic functions like binary sorts.

63 posted on 07/27/2003 11:31:29 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: djf
Well, there are 10 types of people out there - those who know Binary, and those who don't ;0)
64 posted on 07/27/2003 11:32:27 AM PDT by Chad Fairbanks (Some days, it's just not worth gnawing through the straps...)
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To: dfwgator
good points, but knowing the underlying principles of Binary Sorts would be nice either way... :0)
65 posted on 07/27/2003 11:34:27 AM PDT by Chad Fairbanks (Some days, it's just not worth gnawing through the straps...)
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To: BushCountry
Bump
66 posted on 07/27/2003 11:35:04 AM PDT by Captain Beyond (The Hammer of the gods! (Just a cool line from a Led Zep song))
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To: dfwgator
And the fact is, with today's languages, you shouldn't have to code basic functions like binary sorts.

Todays languages may not run on old hardware. And knowing how to make a binary sort is not so important as having all the knowlege that is necessary to make a binary sort (knowlege which is priceless but which will cause the making of the sort to be trivial)

67 posted on 07/27/2003 11:36:09 AM PDT by zeromus
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To: Chad Fairbanks
This isn't about the client, since we dont have client's paying us for custom products

Then you can afford to do it right. But when you have a client directly, and a bid, and a budget, sometimes you can't. (sometimes is unhappily always ALL THE TIME in my case ;_;)

68 posted on 07/27/2003 11:39:26 AM PDT by zeromus
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To: zeromus
I certainly agree that you should know when to use a binary sort as opposed to other types of sorts.
69 posted on 07/27/2003 11:41:37 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: dfwgator
That would be nice if it was true.. sort of. But what I see is somebody comes along with an idea for an application that's gonna take "only a terrabyte" of disk. Not to long before it's up to 1.75 terrabytes, but we should get 2.5 for growth and just in case...

I was a math major. One of the things you learn is that it's impossible to trisect a angle with a ruler and compass. That way, you don't spend the next forty years trying to do it.

Fundamental education in comp-sci should always include basic algorithms and data structures. There are right ways (and very wrong ways) to handle hash tables and linked lists. Do it right and you have data integrity and recoverability. Do it wrong and you will have alot of people out there on your network playing solitaire because the application DB's are trashed.
70 posted on 07/27/2003 11:44:07 AM PDT by djf
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To: zeromus
I used to have direct clients, when I was a gasp... consultant. I always made sure when I made my bid, time estimates etc. that I was very clear that my code would be maintanable. I never lacked for work, and had happy clients... Sure, I had to work really long days and missed a lot of sleep, but I'm picky :0)
71 posted on 07/27/2003 11:45:32 AM PDT by Chad Fairbanks (Some days, it's just not worth gnawing through the straps...)
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To: SlickWillard
It's been a long time since I had a math class, so
how does [2^31 -1] +1 =-2^31 ? I don't see how you end up with a negative number

Bruce
72 posted on 07/27/2003 11:49:12 AM PDT by Bruce Kurtz
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To: Chad Fairbanks
Even in cases where I could get away with doing maintainable code by working nights and weekends, I sometimes cannot justify it to myself. Why spend three weeks doing it right, when I could spend a week doing it wrong, and I am confident theyll end up being satisfied with what they get and never ask for more than a couple of minor tweaks every now and then? I just feel like I am ripping them off if I do it right.

Which is moot anyway because the bosses always bid in such a way that the wrong way is the only possible way to do it

73 posted on 07/27/2003 11:53:46 AM PDT by zeromus
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To: Bruce Kurtz
The convention is that if the high-order bit is turned on, it represents a negative number.
74 posted on 07/27/2003 11:53:48 AM PDT by djf
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To: zeromus
Which is moot anyway because the bosses always bid in such a way that the wrong way is the only possible way to do it

I didn't last long in jobs like that. FInally found that in Medical-related fields, if you can't do it right then it doesn't get done... Never been happier :0)

75 posted on 07/27/2003 11:55:18 AM PDT by Chad Fairbanks (Some days, it's just not worth gnawing through the straps...)
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To: Chad Fairbanks
I didnt last long in my first two jobs like that either... departed on unfriendly terms over ethical disagreements -_-
76 posted on 07/27/2003 11:59:53 AM PDT by zeromus
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To: Chad Fairbanks
Re: Maintainable code.

The single biggest favor you can do for yourself is to write simple, obvious, documented code. Put it in callable subroutines, modules, or "daemons," and use it over and over.

The two biggest jerks that I have to work with on a daily basis are both me.

The first one is me last year, who considered the piece of code that I'm looking at now to be so obvious that it didn't require annotation.

The second one is me next year, who is such a dummy that he wants me to put notes on everything!

:)

77 posted on 07/27/2003 12:44:09 PM PDT by forsnax5
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To: forsnax5
Believe me, I understand - but ever since I became anal, I've been really happy and less sptressed ;0)
78 posted on 07/27/2003 12:47:14 PM PDT by Chad Fairbanks (Some days, it's just not worth gnawing through the straps...)
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To: BushCountry
bttt
79 posted on 07/27/2003 2:58:37 PM PDT by firewalk
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To: dfwgator
Perhaps you are not aware of the ever-increasing migration of American IT jobs to India?? I'm supposed to complete all of my outstanding programming projects (and there are several of them) by November of this year so that I can "begin working on new development" while Covansys India backfills the maintenance of our old mainframe system. You guys figure it out.

As far as a perfect IT education goes, I have a BA in music and have been an IT professional for 18 years. I agree with the earlier posters who maintain that the best IT folks are those who don't have IT degrees.

80 posted on 07/27/2003 6:38:11 PM PDT by mommybain (not Walmart greeter material)
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