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Hydrogen cars hold expensive surprises
The Globe and Mail ^ | Friday, Jul. 18, 2003 | STEPHEN STRAUSS

Posted on 07/18/2003 11:15:37 PM PDT by PeaceBeWithYou

Green-spirited individuals hoping to do their part to save the environment by buying hydrogen-fuelled cars next year are in for expensive and rude surprises, a study by a Canadian and a U.S. scientist says.

Establishing an infrastructure to fuel hydrogen cars, touted by their proponents as a wonder solution to global warming and smog, would cost $5,000 per vehicle, says the study by David Keith, a Canadian atmospheric physicist teaching at Carnegie Mellon University and Alex Farrell of the California Institute of Technology.

Although cars operating on hydrogen fuel cells emit only water vapor, switching to hydrogen would be about 100 times more expensive than simply making present cars less polluting, they say.

Although hydrogen cars would not emit the potent greenhouse gas carbon dioxide, making power plants cleaner burning could achieve the same effect at 1/10 the cost, says the paper published today in the U.S. journal Science.

Many factors conspire to drive up the price of the hydrogen-fuelled vehicles, which the Ford Motor Co. will begin to sell in a limited way in Vancouver next year.

Transporting and storing the difficult-to-contain hydrogen gas is one.

But equally important is dealing with the byproducts formed by the creation of hydrogen, considered a "clean fuel." Hydrogen is currently made as an offshoot of oil and coal refining. But this process creates a huge amount of carbon dioxide.

No one is sure how to keep that carbon dioxide from escaping into the atmosphere and heating up the planet.

"Hydrogen cars should be seen as one of several long-term options, but they make no sense anytime soon," the research paper says.

Prof. Keith was more scathing in an interview.

"My take-home message is that hydrogen cars are to some extent a technological solution in search of a problem. People are attracted to them because they appear to be a magic answer to a whole series of problems. But if you turn the question around and ask, 'What is my problem and what what are reasonably cost-effective solutions,' . . . A hydrogen fuel-cell car is not an early part of any cost-effective solution to any of your problems."

Given this uncertainty, he added that the Canadian support of hydrogen-fuel research, notably at the National Research Centre in Vancouver and through subsidies for hydrogen industries, such as Ballard Power Systems Inc., also in Vancouver, might prove to be the proverbial pig in a poke.

"One of the issues, right or wrong, is Canada betting on a hydrogen horse that is actually going to end up running anywhere? I think one should be very skeptical, despite all the hype."

Defenders of what is sometimes called the "hydrogen economy" said the paper's analysis misses several important points, one being the increase in the cost of gasoline.

"Today, fossil fuels are relatively cheap. When we use up half the supply of the world's oil, the price is going to shoot up. Will that be 2010 or 2020 or 2037? Nobody knows for sure," said Jeremy Rifkin, a Washington-D.C.-based economist and author of the recent book The Hydrogen Economy.

Ron Venter, a University of Toronto engineering professor and a vice-president of the Canadian Hydrogen Association, points out that North American car companies are experimenting with the clean and localized production of hydrogen by using electricity to break down water and thus circumvent the carbon dioxide-storage issue.

Ballard spokesman Mike Rosenberg said his company is aware that the present car and improvements to it are their chief competitors. "But we think we will overtake the internal-combustion engine eventually."



TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; Technical
KEYWORDS: carbondioxide; co2; economics; emvironment; energy; energylist; fuelcells; hydrogen; infrastructure
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To: chuckles
I hate to make you look stupid, but for every molecule of oxygen released in the production of hydrogen, there will be one consumed when the hydrogen is burnt. Thus, unless you are planning to store gargantuan tanks of hydrogen, you won't be seeing any appreciable increase in atmospheric oxygen.
61 posted on 07/23/2003 2:46:47 PM PDT by Flying Circus (Orthodoxy requires Orthopraxy)
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To: Flying Circus
"....Thus, unless you are planning to store gargantuan tanks of hydrogen....."

How else are you going to store the gargantuan amounts of hydrogen it would take to fuel the US if not in gargantuan tanks? I may be stupid, but I'm smarter than you!

62 posted on 07/25/2003 9:10:47 PM PDT by chuckles
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To: B Knotts
That is, IMHO, the wave of the future. Neighborhoods will have their own power generators, each block will have a box about the size of a refrigerator that generates power for the local neighborhood. These generators will be powered by natural gas, which they will burn in fuel cells to create electricity. All of these generators would be plugged into the power grid, and power will be distributed as needed through local switching directed by central controllers.

The end result is that you will have gotten rid of %99 of transmission losses, and pollution is distributed and minimized. No more giant power plants, no more NIMBY resistance to those power plants being constructed, the permit process goes from a million page process down to about what you have to do to put in a traffic light controller.

Small can be beautiful. As far as hydrogen cars, forget it. Hybrids will be the wave of the future. Within ten years there will be hybrid sports cars, SUV 4x4's, pickup trucks, you name it, and they will run circles around the conventional vehicles of today. The future belongs to hybrids, not to hydrogen IMHO.
63 posted on 07/25/2003 9:24:37 PM PDT by Elliott Jackalope (Formerly Billy_bob_bob)
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To: chuckles
If we were to store as much energy in Hydrogen fuel as we currently store petrol fuel I suspect we would still not make 1/10 of 1% difference in the molar fraction of oxygen in the atmosphere. The idea of keeping enough hydrogen stored to significantly affect the atmospheric concentration of oxygen is ludicrous to say the least.
64 posted on 07/26/2003 4:30:02 PM PDT by Flying Circus (orthodoxy requires orthopraxy)
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To: Elliott Gigantalope
Neighborhoods will have their own power generators, each block will have a box about the size of a refrigerator that generates power for the local neighborhood. These generators will be powered by natural gas, which they will burn in fuel cells to create electricity. All of these generators would be plugged into the power grid, and power will be distributed as needed through local switching directed by central controllers.

No fuel cell is needed, this is already doable, and being done(over 4 million operating hours since 1998) with the Capstone Microturbines I linked to in my post #46.

A microturbine is a compact turbine generator that delivers electricity close to the point where it is needed. Operating on a variety of gaseous and liquid fuels, this form of distributed generation technology made its commercial debut in 1998.

Microturbines can serve as primary, emergency backup, or standby power; add capacity and reduce grid consumption bottlenecks simultaneously; and deliver energy cost savings while supplying clean, reliable power with low maintenance needs.

About the size of a refrigerator, each Capstone MicroTurbine unit generates 30 to 60 kilowatts of electricity, enough to power a small business. Maximum thermal efficiencies can be achieved when the exhaust is used in a combined heat and power, or cogeneration, application. With its flexible design, generation capacity is unlimited when running in parallel to the electric grid -- up to 1.2 megawatts of electricity, coupled independent of the grid.

Like a jet engine, the Capstone MicroTurbine mixes fuel with air to create combustion. This combustion turns a magnet generator, compressor and turbine wheels on a revolutionary single shaft, air bearing design at high speed with no need for additional lubricants, oils or coolants. The result is a highly efficient, reliable, clean combustion generator with very low NOx emissions that, unlike diesel generators, can operate around the clock without restrictions. And, unlike combined cycle gas turbines, these power systems use no water.

This watershed 21st century energy management solution is at work now, in a diverse range of industrial, commercial and government applications and geographic environments.

30 or 60KW in a refrigerator sized unit, scalable to 1.2 MW. A bank of these, or more, would power most any substation, mall, or neighborhood.
65 posted on 07/30/2003 3:06:48 PM PDT by PeaceBeWithYou (De Oppresso Liber!)
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