Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

The Tenet Fiasco - Discussion Thread
self

Posted on 07/12/2003 12:52:33 PM PDT by Cathryn Crawford

George Tenet's admission last night that it was his mistake that caused President Bush to use faulty intelligence in his State of The Union address is interesting at the same time as it is convienent. In the statement itself, which is lengthy and filled with reasons as to the intelligence failure, Tenet wholeheartedly takes responsility for his agency.

"Let me be clear about several things right up front. First, CIA approved the President's State of the Union address before it was delivered. Second, I am responsible for the approval process in my Agency. And third, the President had every reason to believe that the text presented to him was sound. These 16 words should never have been included in the text written for the President. "

On the face of it, this admission seems like the perfect solution to the growing problems for both the Bush and Blair administration. It's all CIA's fault, they can claim. But is that really viable?

On the face of it, perhaps. But Bush is the President. He has to take final responsibility, doesn't he?

If Bush can truly claim to know absolutely nothing, then don't we have a serious problem - wouldn't that imply that Bush is either incompetent or is simply not paying attention?

For discussion purposes - has Bush been conned by Tenet? And if he has, isn't that rather serious?

And if he wasn't conned by Tenet, what is the alternative?


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Government; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: attackedbyharpies; banningkeywords; skullofmush
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 881-900901-920921-940941 next last
To: lentulusgracchus
But a former American diplomat accredited to the area with lots of contacts and lots of markers out ought to be able to find out, especially if the local CIA station chief is tasked to help him find the right people to talk to. I'm pretty confident he found the right answers with respect to the Nigeroises -- we aren't exactly talking about penetrating the KGB here.

And the CIA certainly didn't think Wilson's visit put an end to the question:

See post #900 where Tenet says

"Because this report, in our view, did not resolve whether Iraq was or was not seeking uranium from abroad..."

921 posted on 07/14/2003 12:46:25 PM PDT by cyncooper
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 859 | View Replies]

To: lentulusgracchus
Note to self: At least we can't complain that Peter Jennings isn't even a citizen anymore. The turkey-butt finally took his oath. Wonder how he'll explain that to his Canadian relatives?

He will probably tell them the truth (as I guess it--:0): That he so despises George W. Bush that he became a citizen in order to vote against him.

922 posted on 07/14/2003 12:52:16 PM PDT by cyncooper
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 861 | View Replies]

To: lentulusgracchus
Note to self: At least we can't complain that Peter Jennings isn't even a citizen anymore. The turkey-butt finally took his oath. Wonder how he'll explain that to his Canadian relatives?

He will probably tell them the truth (as I guess it--:0): That he so despises George W. Bush that he became a citizen in order to vote against him.

923 posted on 07/14/2003 12:52:30 PM PDT by cyncooper
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 861 | View Replies]

To: cyncooper
Isn't Wilson the one claiming it was the VP who was the drivig force in this? And so what IF he was? What does that signify to you?

without additional information it does not signify anything to me. you are the one making the assumptions - i'm just asking questions.

sorry to disturb your slumber.

924 posted on 07/14/2003 12:58:51 PM PDT by jethropalerobber
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 905 | View Replies]

To: jethropalerobber
sorry to disturb your slumber.

Why the nasty tone?

Your comment "without any additional information" is baseless since I've linked you directly to George Tenet's statement.

But I see you are not on a fact finding mission and now are including personal insults in you replies. That ends my conversation with you.

925 posted on 07/14/2003 1:14:44 PM PDT by cyncooper
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 924 | View Replies]

To: Scenic Sounds
Maybe if you can tell me exactly when mhking will be on, I could justify chancing it for a while. ;-)

Well, gee, it's in the link I gave you. 10pm Eastern.

926 posted on 07/14/2003 1:33:27 PM PDT by Amelia (It's better to light a single candle than to curse the darkness)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 919 | View Replies]

To: Scenic Sounds
I think your post sums up my entire feelings about the matter. Thanks.
927 posted on 07/14/2003 2:26:00 PM PDT by Cathryn Crawford
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 901 | View Replies]

To: cyncooper
Why the nasty tone?

my apologies.

Your comment "without any additional information" is baseless since I've linked you directly to George Tenet's statement.

tenet did not comfirm nor deny wilson's claim that the office of vp had inquired specifically about the uranium story. he just stated that "in an effort to inquire about certain reports involving Niger, CIA's counter-proliferation experts, on their own initiative, asked an individual with ties to the region to make a visit to see what he could learn."

what i am curious about is whether chenney's office did indeed make a request which *prompted* wilson's mission as wilson claimed and tenet did not deny (it should be remembered that wilson did not claim he was sent directly by the office of vp). and if so, why was chenney's office not briefed on the results of wilson's mission as one might expect. if you have information that addresses this question i would like to hear about it, but i will guess that you are satisfied by tenet's suggestion that wilson's mission did not "resolve the issue." i would like to hear wilson's and other intelligence insiders' response to that.

btw - thanks for the link to wilson's interview with hannity last october. it does cast parts of his recent op/ed in a different light. it does make me less likely to rely on wilson's information.

928 posted on 07/14/2003 7:16:50 PM PDT by jethropalerobber
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 925 | View Replies]

To: Cathryn Crawford; Amelia; Scenic Sounds; DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet; cyncooper; jethropalerobber; ...
I want to Thank You all, for taking this thread to the level it should have been at in the first place. You all have placed alot of time in your posts. And as this subject was one that I am still trying to understand. I, Thank You again for all of your info and class in your lastest posts.
929 posted on 07/14/2003 8:43:36 PM PDT by Refinersfire
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 927 | View Replies]

To: Refinersfire
Hmmmmm...either I made it on your list by accident, or you're being sarcastic. ; ) (Thank you, and you're welcome, in any case!)
930 posted on 07/14/2003 9:13:11 PM PDT by DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 929 | View Replies]

To: cyncooper
I don't doubt that Saddam has been seeking a nuclear capability, and the materials he collected in the 1990's haven't all been accounted for. We need to roll up his resources, his people, and his dead body in damn short order. I'm afraid we are going to lose a city center if we don't bulk up and start running the bitter-ender Ba'athists down and killing them all. We have to End This, and begin a restoration of real government and services in Iraq.

I thought the issue at hand more particularly was Wilson's trip to Niger, which I heard him discussing with Alan Colmes I believe it was, and the fact that he came up empty. Yes, I agree that that outcome doesn't disprove the general charge against Saddam, or burden Bush unduly with the 'Rat charge that "he's been lying to us". To my mind, this whole flap blew up because Bush backed up a bit on something he said in the State of the Union about a particular lead that turned out to be bogus on further inspection. And no, I agree that it doesn't constitute the whole of the British lead on Saddam's nosing around Africa, and I further agree that it's doubtful that Wilson, in the time allowed, could lead a thorough appraisal and recension of the British warning from our own sources and resources, even if he'd been commissioned by CIA -- or Cheney's office, or whoEVER sent him -- to do that, which he wasn't.

This is a really good example of how the 'Rats can get people chasing their tails about "he said -- she said", as if the future of the world depended on it. I'm really sick of Left journopolemicists getting a free ride on this stuff. I think that these flaps that they create to "get" people ought to feature outcomes that, when they're unfavorable to their favored theory of "Bush lied", ought to have some real career consequences attached for whoever floated the canard. I have in mind the 88% dropoff in their platinum album's sales that the Dixie Chicks have suffered since Natalie Maines shot her mouth off in Europe and repudiated her president in front of a crowd of unfriendly foreign nationals.

931 posted on 07/15/2003 12:22:55 AM PDT by lentulusgracchus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 921 | View Replies]

To: cyncooper
That [Peter Jennings] so despises George W. Bush that he became a citizen in order to vote against him.

I've got an even better offer for them. We'll take Jennings, if they'll swap us BC, the Yukon, and the prairie provinces for everything east of the Hudson ("Blue America"). That should just about settle things. They'd get 24,000,000 obnoxious, think-alike Socialist people, some big cities, most of the Ivy League and some serious "heaviosity" (to quote Woody Allen, one of the East Coast's sage-saints [<urping noises>], and we get a clear shot from Florida to Alaska and about 8,000,000 honest farmers and miners. Canada would wind up with about 43,000,000 Socialists, or about enough chips on the table to join the European Union if they want, and we'd be down to about 265,000,000 -- or about 235,000,000, after we kick the 30,000,000 Mexican and Central American squatters out. Then we'd only be five times as large as Canada, and they'd feel a whole lot better about things. ;^)

</off-topic>

932 posted on 07/15/2003 12:54:18 AM PDT by lentulusgracchus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 923 | View Replies]

To: jethropalerobber
I can answer your question: Bush cited several instances of evidentiary support for his decisions, which, taken as a whole, made for a very compelling argument. But since you obviously dislike Bush, that wouldn't matter to you. Go back to the DU.
933 posted on 07/15/2003 6:02:06 AM PDT by ought-six
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 898 | View Replies]

To: DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet
No, you made it on the list, (outside your love spat with Fred.. sorry, I couldn't let that past... ;-) ) because when you posted, you didn't do it jumping up and down with a red face.
934 posted on 07/15/2003 7:52:58 AM PDT by Refinersfire
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 930 | View Replies]

To: Refinersfire; Fred Mertz
Fred digs me. Don't let him fool you. ; )
935 posted on 07/15/2003 1:18:49 PM PDT by DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 934 | View Replies]

To: ought-six
I can answer your question: Bush cited several instances of evidentiary support for his decisions, which, taken as a whole, made for a very compelling argument.

and what were these "several instances of evidentiary support" of a reconstituted nuclear program that were highlighted in SOTU?

let's take a look:
"The International Atomic Energy Agency confirmed in the 1990s that Saddam Hussein had an advanced nuclear weapons development program, had a design for a nuclear weapon, and was working on five different methods of enriching uranium for a bomb. The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa. Our intelligence sources tell us that he has attempted to purchase high strength aluminum tubes suitable for nuclear weapons production. Saddam Hussein has not credibly explained these activities. He clearly has much to hide."

that is the sum and total of bush's SOTU presentation on iraq's attempts to reconstitute its nuclear program. what you refer to as "several instances" is really just 3 points:
1) IAEA confirmation in "1990s" of nuclear program ( deceptive reference to iraq's pre-1991 program, dismantled after first gulf war)
2) uranium from africa (CIA: forgery, IAEA: forgery)
3) aluminum tubes (CIA: for centrifuges, IAEA: not sutiable for centrifuges)

sorry, but it doesn't look very compelling to me. keep an eye on it - sure. take out suspect weapons sites - sure. invade and occupy for years at $4B a month - no thanks, i pay enough taxes as it is.

Go back to the DU.

translation: i can't answer your question honestly, so you must be a democrat who hates bush.

936 posted on 07/15/2003 7:54:00 PM PDT by jethropalerobber
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 933 | View Replies]

To: jethropalerobber
And then, of course, there is the evidence of defectors, intelligence agencies from around the world, the U.N., ad nauseum. Even your hero Bill Clinton agreed with the evidence, and used it to launch some cruise missiles (ineffective as that was, just like his presidency). Oh, and nuclear scientists bury weapons manufacturing components in their backyards everyday, don't they? If you were honest, and not so blinded by your partisan hatred of Bush, you'd admit that there was compelling evidence, and direct American interest, in taking out Saddam Hussein.
937 posted on 07/16/2003 5:41:44 AM PDT by ought-six
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 936 | View Replies]

To: ought-six
If you were honest, and not so blinded by your partisan hatred of Bush, you'd admit that there was compelling evidence, and direct American interest, in taking out Saddam Hussein.

i have not commented on the overall intelligence picture as it stood early this year. i merely pointed out that, if there was compelling evidence of an active nuclear program at that time, bush did not mention it in his SOTU address, while at the same time he did mention a handful of very weak and somewhat deceptive points (which you apparently don't deny). i find that questionable. if you equate that with "hatred of bush" that's your problem.

and you, unable to support your position in the argument (or even clearly recognize what it is) turn immediately to name calling and strawmen.

goodbye.

938 posted on 07/16/2003 6:43:55 AM PDT by jethropalerobber
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 937 | View Replies]

To: jethropalerobber
"and you, unable to support your position in the argument (or even clearly recognize what it is) turn immediately to name calling and strawmen."

And as for you, whenever you speak something is subtracted from the sum total of human knowledge.

939 posted on 07/17/2003 5:44:08 AM PDT by ought-six
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 938 | View Replies]

To: ought-six; Cathryn Crawford
Post 940. Well on the way to 1000.
940 posted on 08/24/2003 8:47:35 PM PDT by Lazamataz (I am the extended middle finger in the fist of life.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 939 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 881-900901-920921-940941 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson