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Senators have problems with House redistricting map - Texas redistricting
Associated Press ^ | July 8, 2003 | Associated Press Staff

Posted on 07/08/2003 3:48:12 PM PDT by MeekOneGOP

Senators have problems with House redistricting map

ASSOCIATED PRESS

Tuesday, July 8, 2003

AUSTIN — Democrats and some Republicans in the Texas Senate aren't satisfied with a congressional redistricting map the House produced, meaning changes to the plan are necessary, Lt. Gov. David Dewhurst said Tuesday.

"There are some concerns by members of the Senate on the House map that came over last night. So we're going to have to go to work on that map if we're going to see a redistricting plan come out of the Senate," Dewhurst said.

Dewhurst, a Republican who presides over the Senate, also said he wanted to be involved in the drafting of the GOP-backed House plan but he wasn't included.

The Republican-controlled House rolled over Democrats' objections and gave final approval 83-62 early Tuesday to a map that redraws the state's congressional districts in favor of Republicans.

It could send as many as 21 Texas Republicans to Congress. Right now Democrats hold a 17-15 edge in the delegation.

Among the senators who don't like the House map is Sen. Bill Ratliff, R-Mount Pleasant, who said the House proposal would hurt representation for his region.

"I cannot vote for the House map," Ratliff said. "It obliterates northeast Texas. That is the part of the state that I represent. ... Texarkana would be represented by somebody in east Dallas County."

Ratliff said if he agrees to support a modified map and votes to bring it up for debate, he would have to have assurances that it would remain intact through the rest of the legislative process, even through a House-Senate conference committee.

Senate rules require a two-thirds vote before debate is allowed in the 31-member chamber.



TOPICS: News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: democrats; redistricting; republicans; texas
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1 posted on 07/08/2003 3:48:12 PM PDT by MeekOneGOP
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To: MeeknMing
Senate rules require a two-thirds vote before debate is allowed in the 31-member chamber.

Unless the Lt. Gov waives the rule. They leave that part out. Lt. Gov. in Texas is more powerful than any other elected official in Texas, IMHO.

/john

2 posted on 07/08/2003 3:54:09 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (I'm just a cook.)
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3 posted on 07/08/2003 3:55:22 PM PDT by Support Free Republic (Your support keeps Free Republic going strong!)
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To: MeeknMing
Sigh! How much longer is this going to take?
4 posted on 07/08/2003 4:08:26 PM PDT by McLynnan
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To: MeeknMing
The Dems have been getting all bent out of shape about this redistricting effort - good. The simple fact is that well over 50% of Texas votes for the House in 2002 were for Republicans, yet Dems have 53% of the Texas seats in the House. Why? Because of prior gerrymandering efforts by Dem-controlled Texas Legislatures. What these hypocritical jackassess are busy braying about is the reversal of previously unfair, but advantageous-to-Dems, districts. Well, tough noogies - now the shoe is on the other foot. Now the Dems have to live with being in the minority. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
5 posted on 07/08/2003 4:29:20 PM PDT by Ancesthntr
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To: JRandomFreeper
Unless the Lt. Gov waives the rule. They leave that part out. Lt. Gov. in Texas is more powerful than any other elected official in Texas, IMHO.

That's true, I believe. But he said he'd hold to the 2/3rd's rule. That is the Senate rule/precedent, and he's a Republican, not a 'RAT. I think he'll hold to precedent, unlike what the 'RATS are doing in the U.S. Senate with President Bush's judicial appointments. (I'm talking about the Filibusters, of course).


6 posted on 07/08/2003 5:11:33 PM PDT by MeekOneGOP (Bu-bye Dixie Chimps! / Coming Soon !: Freeper site on Comcast. Found the URL. Gotta fix it now.)
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To: McLynnan
Not too much longer, I hope. I bet before the weekend we have a good idea how this comes out/will come out ??

7 posted on 07/08/2003 5:14:30 PM PDT by MeekOneGOP (Bu-bye Dixie Chimps! / Coming Soon !: Freeper site on Comcast. Found the URL. Gotta fix it now.)
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To: MeeknMing
Frankly, I hope the Senate doesn't pass the House map. It leaves Bonilla highly vulnerable and doesn't create any districts in which another Hispanic Republican can win. If the TX GOP thinks it can continue in the majority while writing off the Hispanic vote, they are crazy.

There are currently 7 Hispanic-majority districts (6 of represented by Hispanics and one by RAT Gene Green) and only one of which is represented by a Republican. I think the TX GOP should draw a map with 8 Hispanic-majority districts (including a district where a Hispanic will defeat Gene Green) and of which 3 would favor a Hispanic Republican. Here's what they should do:

1. Create a hyper-RAT district for Democrat Ruben Hinojosa composed of all of Hidalgo, Starr and Jim Hogg counties and part of Brooks county;

2. Create a hyper-RAT district for Democrat Salomon Ortiz or Democrat Eddie Lucio's son or a Hispanic Democrat from Laredo composed of all of Cameron (Brownsville), Willacy, Kenedy, Duval, Jim Wells (Alice), Zapata, Webb (Laredo) and Dimmit counties and part of Zavala, Brooks and Jim Hogg counties;

3. Pack all the El Paso Democrats possible into a Hispanic-majority district for Democrat Silvestre Reyes (in truth, would be almost identical to his current district);

4. Pack all of the San Antonio Democrats possible (including the black neighborhoods) into a Hispanic-majority district where Democrats Charles Gonzalez and Ciro Rodriguez will most likely duke it out;

5. Create a 50%+1 Hispanic district (in which Bush got over 60% in 2000 and in which Clinton was held below 45% in 1996) for Henry Bonilla composed of his current district minus the counties mentioned above, with additional Hispanics from Odessa, Midland and San Antonio;

6. Create a 50%+1 Hispanic district (in which Bush got over 56% in 2000 and in which Clinton was held below 48% in 1996) for a Hispanic Republican composed of Nueces, Kleberg, San Patricio, Victoria, Aransas, Refugio, Goliad and other counties to the east. If Salomon Ortiz decided to run here instead of in the safely Democratic Brownsville-Laredo district, he may win it but would have a very tough race against a Hispanic Republican;

7. Create a 50%+1 Hispanic district (in which Bush got over 56% in 2000 and in which Clinton was held below 48% in 1996) for a Hispanic Republican composed of part of Bexar (San Antonio) and Travis (Austin) Counties and all of Guadalupe, Live Oak, McMullen, Bee, Atacosa, Wilson, Gonzales, Karnes and other surrounding counties; and

8. Create a Houston district with a Hispanic population of over 70% so that a Hispanic Democrat will be able to defeat RAT Gene Green.

Having increased the number of Hispanic districts while simultaneously increasing the number of Republican districts by 2, the rest of the job is easier.

1. Create 2 additional RAT districts in the Houston-Galveston (we already created a Hispanic RAT district in Houston), one of which would be close to 50% black and the other of which would be close to 40% black and also heavily Hispanic;

2. Create 2 RAT districts in Dallas, one close to 50% black and the other 30% black and 40% Hispanic (this would unfortunately allow Frost to remain in the House---unless defeated in the RAT primary---but would keep all the surrounding seats safely Republican);

3. What is left of Travis County should be split up among two other districts in the general vicinity of Travis so that no one can argue that the interests of the Austin metro area aren't being looked after;

4. Play with the lines so that incumbent RATs can't run in a district in which they currently represent more than 60% of the population, and in which Bush got over 60% in 2000 and Clinton less than 42% in 1996.

This would yield a delegation with 23 Republicans (3 of them Hispanic) and 9 Democrats (5 Hispanics, 2 or 3 blacks and 1 or 2 whites). Maybe it ain't perfect, but it's better than the piece of crap map approved by the House.
8 posted on 07/08/2003 5:35:22 PM PDT by AuH2ORepublican (Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice, moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.)
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To: Pubbie; JohnnyZ; Theodore R.; Nathaniel Fischer; AuH2ORepublican; LdSentinal; Kuksool; ...
Now that sounds more like it... especially increasing our numbers of Hispanic Republicans (we ought to have as many as Florida's for heavens sake !). *Pinging* others to read this worthy proposal...
9 posted on 07/08/2003 5:57:44 PM PDT by fieldmarshaldj (~Remember, it's not sporting to fire at RINO until charging~)
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To: AuH2ORepublican
{This would yield a delegation with 23 Republicans (3 of them Hispanic) and 9 Democrats (5 Hispanics, 2 or 3 blacks and 1 or 2 whites). Maybe it ain't perfect, but it's better than the piece of crap map approved by the House}

I like your plan. Why couldn't the TX GOP think of this? You have a killer partisan instinct which is much needed in the GOP leadership. Sometimes I wonder if the brain cells of the GOP leaders are fully functioning.
10 posted on 07/08/2003 6:54:23 PM PDT by Kuksool
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To: MeeknMing
The Dallas Morning News story:

Key senators denounce House map

They promise districts that won't divide communities

07/09/2003

By WAYNE SLATER and GROMER JEFFERS JR. / The Dallas Morning News

Key senators declared a House-passed redistricting bill dead on arrival Tuesday and promised an alternative to better reflect growing GOP strength without dividing communities and robbing rural Texas of its influence in Congress.

"I've talked to a number of senators, both Democrat and Republican, and they've got some problems with the House map," said GOP Lt. Gov. David Dewhurst, who presides over the Senate.

Democrats attending a redistricting hearing in Dallas said a bipartisan bloc in the Senate was ready to prevent the House map from reaching the Senate floor.

"It's a pig with lipstick on it," declared Sen. Royce West, D-Dallas.

Also Online
Maps:
Current Texas Congressional districts
Proposed Texas Congressional districts
Special Session: Redistricting hearing schedule, summary, maps
(from the Texas Legislative Council)
Video: Macie Jepson reports on public redistricting hearings
More Politics
Even U.S. House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, who has pressed the Legislature to redraw congressional boundaries to boost GOP seats, called the House map "a good start" that the Senate probably will change.

GOP leaders said they remain undeterred in the task of redrawing congressional boundaries during the special legislative session. Democrats held out hope that they still can block passage of a new map.

The Republican-controlled House gave approval early Tuesday to a redistricting plan, rolling over Democrat objections that the proposal was partisan gerrymandering that diminished the influence of rural Texans and racial minorities.

Democrats hold a 17-15 edge in the state's congressional delegation. The House map could increase the GOP's seats to 21, experts say.

But Senate criticism of the House plan Tuesday came on several fronts.

Sen. Kenneth Armbrister, D-Victoria, a potential swing vote, said he could not vote for the House proposal because it would give suburban voters too much influence over rural districts.

Sen. Bill Ratliff, R-Mount Pleasant, complained that the House-passed map would unacceptably subdivide East Texas.

"It obliterates northeast Texas, the part of the state I represent," said Mr. Ratliff. "Texarkana would be represented by somebody from east Dallas County, and I don't think the people in my district would agree with that."

Rep. Phil King, R-Weatherford, sponsor of the House plan, said congressional lines should reflect the growing Republican shift in the state, where the GOP holds every statewide office and controls both chamber of the Legislature.

"This is a fair and equitable map of Texas that clearly recognizes our voting patterns," he said.

Getting to the floor

Senate rules require a two-thirds vote before any debate is allowed. Democrats, who hold 12 seats in the 31-member body, could block a vote, but Republicans are cautiously confident they can persuade enough Democrats to bring the matter up for consideration.

Once a bill is up for debate on the Senate floor, it can be amended there or changed in a conference committee of House and Senate members. And only a simple majority – 16 members of the 31-member Senate – would then be necessary for passage.

Mr. Ratliff said that before voting to consider redistricting, he would need a promise that a later conference committee would not send back a bill similar to the House proposal.

"I will have to have assurances," he said. "I will have to be comfortable that the map will not come back ... that does anything that the House map does."

Mr. Dewhurst sought to offer that assurance, saying that Senate members of a conference committee would require that any final plan would have to closely mirror a Senate version that he promised would have bipartisan support.

"We're going to look over that House map over the next several days," he said. "Can we fix it so we can reach a consensus? If not, how should we draw a map so we can reach a consensus here in the Senate."

Some Senate Democrats stepped up the pressure on members of their own party in an effort to keep them from defecting.

"This is a defining vote. You can't be a Republican and a Democrat on this. You've got to choose," said Sen. John Whitmire, D-Houston. "If you're a Democrat office holder and you vote for a Republican redistricting plan, I would think that Democrats in a primary would look very unfavorably toward you."

Tuesday, a Senate committee held hearings in Dallas on a new redistricting map.

Sen. Leticia Van De Putte, D-San Antonio, echoed the complaints of many Democrats who said the special session on redistricting, called by Gov. Rick Perry, was a waste of taxpayer dollars.

"What we have here is a solution looking for a problem," said Ms. Van De Putte, who is head of the Democratic Senate Caucus.

Republican criticism

Even some Republican senators in Dallas had problems with the House proposal.

Sen. Florence Shapiro, R-Plano, said the House map was flawed.

"I do think it will be amended. The Senate has it's own ideas," she said. "Some of the senators have already expressed concern with West Texas, East Texas and some pairings that they thought were unfair."

Ms. Shapiro said she did not think Mr. West had the votes to prevent a plan from coming up for Senate debate.

Sen. Chris Harris, R-Arlington, said he had not seen the House plan and would come up with a map of his own.

"I've not been counting heads," he said. "I've been going to public hearings and listening to the people."

More than 500 people jammed into a room at the University of North Texas in Dallas for the Senate hearing.

They carried signs that read, "Scrap the map" and "Don't Dance With DeLay."

Democratic Reps. Martin Frost of Arlington and Max Sandlin of Marshall testified against the proposal.

"Tom DeLay is asking that the Texas Legislature start a holy war that will be picked up by other Legislatures all over the country, and it would put this country into chaos," Mr. Frost told reporters.

Mr. DeLay has rejected that and said the new map is designed to reflect Texans' increased support of Republicans.

Mr. Sandlin, who brought more than 100 supporters with him from East Texas, sparred with Sen. Robert Duncan, R-Lubbock, over the five-minute limit imposed on those who testified at the hearing.

One of several senior Democrats at risk under the House plan, he said rural and minority voters were being ignored.

"It makes sure that there is no rural representation. It makes sure that there's no minority representation," he said. "We have to make sure that voters and not Tom DeLay decides who their congressman is."

Staff writer Robert T. Garrett contributed to this report.

E-mail wslater@dallasnews.com

or gjeffers@dallasnews.com


Online at: http://www.dallasnews.com/latestnews/stories/070903dnetexredist.3063c.html

11 posted on 07/09/2003 3:33:36 AM PDT by MeekOneGOP (Bu-bye Dixie Chimps! / Coming Soon !: Freeper site on Comcast. Found the URL. Gotta fix it now.)
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To: AuH2ORepublican; fieldmarshaldj; Kuksool
Thanks, folks. Looks like the Senate will take a few days to figure this out and change the House version alright.

I posted the DMN story on #11.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/942538/posts?page=11#11
12 posted on 07/09/2003 3:38:47 AM PDT by MeekOneGOP (Bu-bye Dixie Chimps! / Coming Soon !: Freeper site on Comcast. Found the URL. Gotta fix it now.)
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To: yall
Here is a list of recent articles on Redistricting:

FR Search: Keyword "Redistricting"

07-08-2003
House passes remap
Veteran Democrats may lose seats if bill goes through Senate


Above article is worthy of showing that a picture indeed is worth a thousand words:
First the Chicken D’s run away to Ardmore, Oklahoma. That didn’t work, so here they are, still having a fit during the Redistricting debate:


As King began his argument for the new congressional boundaries Monday afternoon, about 30 Democrats in the gallery donned white socks as hand puppets to mock King. Every time he spoke, the little white mouths flapped.

07-07-2003
TEXAS REDISTRICTING--Vote TONIGHT!


07-07-2003
Race rhetoric stokes Texas redistricting fire


07-07-2003
Tension may soar as map debate hits House floor - Texas redistricting


07-06-2003
House panel quickly passes Republican redistricting plan -
map likely to unseat six Democrats


07-04-2003
New GOP map restores (Rep. Martin Frost's) district


07-03-2003
Republicans pull proposed map - redistricting


07-03-2003
Chamber of Commerce and GI Forum Hire Temps to Testify


07-02-2003
The Great Texas Power Grab - redistricting


07-01-2003
Tx Democrats Trying Fight, Not Flight, Over Districts
(The-Terrific-Texan-Special-Session)


13 posted on 07/09/2003 4:08:49 AM PDT by MeekOneGOP (Bu-bye Dixie Chimps! / Coming Soon !: Freeper site on Comcast. Found the URL. Gotta fix it now.)
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To: AuH2ORepublican
You should be put in charge of all redistricting. :D

Could you come up with a map that would elect more Republicans from Illinois?
14 posted on 07/09/2003 5:15:58 AM PDT by Impy (Dear Justice O'Connor, If you want to see your cat alive again.....)
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To: Impy
"Could you come up with a map that would elect more Republicans from Illinois?"


I'm sure there's a way of drawing the lines so that Lane Evans would lose and that would not threaten other Republicans. But other than that, there isn't much more that one can do in IL---we already have 10 of the 19 Representatives in a state in which Gore beat Bush by 12%.
15 posted on 07/09/2003 4:48:32 PM PDT by AuH2ORepublican (Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice, moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.)
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To: AuH2ORepublican
Well done. Developing and protecting Hispanic Republicans should be redistricting Job #1 throughout California and the southwest.
16 posted on 07/09/2003 4:56:37 PM PDT by only1percent
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To: AuH2ORepublican
Could anything be done to Costello's seat (12th)?
17 posted on 07/10/2003 6:00:35 PM PDT by Impy (Dear Justice O'Connor, If you want to see your cat alive again.....)
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To: Impy
"Could anything be done to Costello's seat (12th)?"


Not if you don't want to lose any other seats. East St. Louis is really Democratic, and the best strategy would be to pack other RAT counties from the region (especially those to the north and east) into Costello's district.
18 posted on 07/10/2003 6:22:05 PM PDT by AuH2ORepublican (Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice, moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.)
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To: AuH2ORepublican; Impy
The current gerrymander in IL actually favors the GOP. 10 GOP congresscritters out of a possible 19 is the most we can obtain. If the Daley political machine really wanted to play hardball, they could draw Rep. John Shimkus (IL-19), Rep. Jerry Weller (IL-11). and Rep. Mark Kirk (IL-10) into retirement. Moreover, the IL RATS could also make the GOP-leaning districts of Henry Hyde (IL-06) and Judy Biggert (IL-13) into more marginal districts. Let's hope the IL RATS won't follow the lead of Texas.
19 posted on 07/12/2003 12:57:07 PM PDT by Kuksool
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To: Kuksool; Impy
"Let's hope the IL RATS won't follow the lead of Texas."


They'd have to wait until 2010, since the IL legislature already approved a map in 2002 (at the time, the Senate and the Governorship were Republican, and the House was Democrat. It was a bipartisan map drawn by Congressmen Hastert and Lipinski.

But you're right, Kuksool, the RATs could have endangered Shimkus, Weller and Kirk, and then some.
20 posted on 07/12/2003 1:33:58 PM PDT by AuH2ORepublican (Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice, moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.)
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