He's celibate until marriage, and dates won't tolerate it

Chicago Sun-Times ^ | June 15, 2003 | Mary Mitchell

[Mister Magoo]

He's celibate until marriage, and dates won't tolerate it

June 15, 2003

BY MARY MITCHELL SUN-TIMES COLUMNIST

Ten years ago, Darren Washington, 33, made a dramatic lifestyle change. He decided to abstain from sex until he got married. It is a choice that makes sense in a world where sex can literally kill you. But the fear of sexually transmitted diseases was not the only thing that motivated Washington to try celibacy. Given the pain sexual relationships can cause, he wanted to be part of the solution--not part of the problem.

On Saturday, June 21, he will be one of the panelists for "What Men Don't Like To Talk About" at Being Single Magazine's 5th Annual Bachelor Breakfast.

Washington, director of external affairs for SBC Indiana, says his celibacy has frustrated some women.

"A lot of women wanted to be sexually active," he said. "And you have so many people fronting. What I found out is that women wanted a man who was going to be faithful to her because a lot of men are juggling different women, having sex with different women, and so women thought it would be OK if I was only having sex with them."

Some women backed away after realizing Washington took abstinence seriously.

"I told one woman I just wanted to be friends and she said she already had enough friends," he said.

Then, there's the hurry-up-and-get-on-with-it sister.

"I dated a very intelligent woman, an attorney, who was OK with celibacy," Washington said. "But after six months, she wanted me to make a commitment. She felt if she knew we were going to marry then she could abstain. I couldn't make that promise."

Washington, a state-certified HIV/AIDS counselor, regularly speaks out about abstinence. He says he does so because it is the best alternative, particularly for African-American couples.

"I think a lot of people--men and women--don't understand the emotional and psychological effects that premarital sex cause besides teenage pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases.

"When you give your body, you open an area to them that is really sacred. You exchange spirits with that person and that is how you end up with heartaches, pain and jealousy. There are women out here who are cheating just like men. You can't blame one [gender] more than the other. If men stood up and took the initiative and treated women with more respect and respected their bodies, women would want their bodies respected."

Sex shouldn't be part of a dating relationship, Washington said.

"You really truly have to be patient and wait for the right man to come into your life," he said. "There are a lot of men out here who have their pick of the litter. They date a lot of women and they know they are a good catch. They are financially together and a lot of these men are having sex with a lot of different women."

In the abstinence world, a date is a date.

"There are certain things that are off limits if you are not willing to be married," he said. "I can go out with different people to have fun, but I don't expect sex and I don't expect them to take their clothes off."

But for a lot of men, sex is seen as their reward for showing his date a good time.

""I don't expect a woman to have sex with me because I took her out to dinner and spent $100," Washington counters. "That should be normal if I am trying to win her hand and to prove to her I'm the man of her dreams.

On the other side, women who do not have romantic feelings for a man may get involved with him sexually because he is financially solid and drives a nice car, Washington pointed out.

"We have to stop using each other," he said. "One way to do that is to abstain."

Of course, the real question is whether Washington is really one of those brothers on the down-low. He chuckled when I asked, but admitted it wasn't the first time he's been asked about his sexuality.

"People live an alternative lifestyle for sexual liberation, not sexual resignation," he said. "Right now, a lot of people are looking for a cure to AIDS. My issue is, yes, we need drugs that will stop the spread of AIDS, but what about the people who don't have it. They need to abstain. If you can't put a ring on a woman's finger or you don't want to marry the brother, you shouldn't be out there."

As noted in a recent Sun-Times special report on marriage, African Americans marry at a significantly lower rate than other racial groups in the United States. By age 30, 81 percent of white women and 77 percent of Asians and Hispanics will marry, but only 52 percent of black women will do so, according to the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

After talking to Washington, I recalled something my father used to say when his daughters started dating: "Why buy the cow when the milk is free?" Of course, we didn't listen. As things have turned out, fathers knew best after all.

For additional information about next Saturday's panel discussion, please call (312) 567-9900.

[kuma]

I'd have to say I've met more cranky sex nuts than cranky virgins. ^_^*

[7 x 77]

Very smug for someone who lives in a society were the landscape is littered with broken families. You're like the New York Times when they lectured the Irish on their laws forbidding divorce. Where are the fruits of your philosophy of sex?

You need to lighten up.

When a small minority of people stand up against society they sound shrill, but my remnant knows our country is losing something of great value and we couldn't live with ourselves if we didn't implore others to open their eyes to the family wreckage that's everywhere and ask them to put 2 and 2 together.

[sinkspur]

When a small minority of people stand up against society they sound shrill, but my remnant knows our country is losing something of great value and we couldn't live with ourselves if we didn't implore others to open their eyes to the family wreckage that's everywhere.

No. They don't sound shrill. They look humorless.

Enjoy the picture of the kitten and don't read the words.

[7 x 77]

That's got to be hard for your Aunt.

It's been a very heavy burden at times. She used to chain smoke and get stess rashes, but she gave up the cigirettes and she's a loving, happy person who has to pick up her cross every day.

[RnMomof7]

You're talking about a diffferent problem: couples who find that the sexual part of their relationship is so good that they don't care if anything else everr develops. I'm more concerned with situations in which the couple wants every important aspect of the relationship to work right. Finding out that your husband is an "ice king" when you're not is not something you want to have happen after the marriage takes place.

No I am talking about couples that have hormone driven relationships and are so busy with sex that they do not notice that they end up in bed most of the time .

Are you REALLY worried about the HUSBAND ..how about a little truth in this conversation.

What if the woman were absolutely prefect, bright ,attractive , loving, understanding, and attentive BUT was not a great roll? Do you turn that one in?

[7 x 77]

No. They don't sound shrill. They look humorless.

This is what all of us on this thread were accused of when the Clintons were debasing so much in our culture and we fought to protect what we knew was of great value.

[litany_of_lies]

(from Pan_Yans Wife) I wonder how many people who were not virgins when they married, now wish that they had been virgins?

(laredo 44's response) I wonder just the opposite.

You both can stop wondering if you can find the divorce rate for marriages where both people were chaste until they got married.

I don't have it, but I'll betcha it's a lot, lot lower than the overal average of 40%-50%, simply because these people, to paraphrase another poster, have learned to think with something besides their genitals. I would guess that it's under 10%, and that neither of you will bet against me.

[Nowhere Man]

Another factor is that I'm just not a good salesman, and dating is at least in part a case of salesmanship. Personally, I think our society has gone entirely too far towards what is "marketable" and away from what is true. I once knew a preacher whose church was too small to pay him and who supported himself as a salesman. He said my problem is the mindset of an engineer versus that of a salesman. If a salesman is rejected ten times, the salesman will go into the eleventh meeting believing that he'll make the sale. He'll say to himself, "I've got a great product. If the past ten calls have failed to produce a sale, the next one is bound to buy." An engineer takes the opposite view. An engineer looks at ten rejections and says, "I've run this experiment ten times. I've produced repeatable, statistically significant results. I know what the answer is. Why am I even here?" Unfortunately, I am an engineer with a strong engineering mindset.

I think that's it with me, I'm a "nuts & volts" type of guy so I definately have an engineer mindset too. The trouble with the sales approach in many things is that a lot of times there is so much fluff that many times you cannot see what is real and that can be dangerous. Then again another reason I'm more of an engineering type is I've been told that "I can't sell water in a desert." B-) B-P

A third factor is that for those of us who don't care for the bar scene, it's hard to meet people. I'm certainly no social butterfly, but I'm not a hermit either. However, I can't remember the last time my normal life brought me in contact with someone who would even be worth dating. Once one leaves college, the opportunities to meet people just aren't there. I met some women in church, but my perspective was always just a little too off-kilter to attract them. Most would say that my ideas were reasonable and thoughtful, but they'd rather date guys who just blindly parroted the "party line."

That's a huge problem, it even surpasses the salesman/engineer one. Bars are a no-no with me. I've seen my buddy pick up, date, and go with a woman he met there and whoa, he has problems like you never believe, it's a long, long story there.

I hate to sound mushy, but I have sensitive side, I know women like that although being too mushy shuts many of them off, but in moderation, it is good to have some empathy. Sometimes I wish things were like 100+ years ago where you go to structure dances and court women, get to know them, and find out of they are right for you. Plus they had games like where eligible men were auctioned off to eligible women where they would have a picnic and such. I remember seeing one episode on "Avonlea" that had that.

It's a shame a lot of things have gotten to fast paced/glitzy/glam in today's world instead of focusing on the simple things.

I know myself, the way I feel, when I do find that someone to marry, at least I can be true to myself. I know on her end, I hope she was the same but I realize we all make mistakes in life and as long as she is faithful to me and I would be to her, well, that would be super.

[litany_of_lies]

Important overlooked point:

By age 30, 81 percent of white women and 77 percent of Asians and Hispanics will marry, but only 52 percent of black women will do so, according to the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Ah, yes. The legacy of the welfare state. The KKK couldn't have done more harm to the black family than that inflicted by Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, the civil rights pimps and their limousine liberal "friends."

[Jhoffa_]

I think this guy is a hero.. He puts his money where his mouth is and you have to respect that.

Bravo Mr Washington! You sir are a non-hypocrite.

PS: This reminds me of an odd situation with a friend of mine. He has custody of his children and the women he dates DON'T LIKE THAT..

But, of course when it's the chick who has kids.. then the very first thing they do is push them down your throat as some kind of litmus test. And you're supposed to be okay with that or there's something "wrong" with you.

[Gabrielle Reilly]

>>>"Avonlea">>>>

Do you mean you were watching "Ann of GreenGables" from Prince Edward Island or is that another show?

[TheSpottedOwl]

LOL Weddings seem like such a tragic waste of money and just add to the financial stress of marriage when a couple is starting out. That is easy for me to say though since they didn't have dreamy magazines of white weddings where I grew up. I just never saw the point. Romance comes in many different formats. :)

Oh yeah, wedding insanity. My girl has been looking through wedding magazines for a couple of years. Talk about "sticker shock"! I found her a dress in a catalogue for $99 bucks. It was ivory lace with an ivory skirt. It was supposed to be a faux 2 piece dress? The top and bottom were only attached by the back zipper, it exposed her stomach when she lifted her arms, and the skirt was the kind of material that you would line a real dress with. She had a fit. Totally crummy workmanship. So she's going to just wear a suit or something. I'm catering, and the 3 of us girls are cleaning the house this week and cooking. It'll be some hard work, but we'll get it done :)

I can't believe how much money couples spend on weddings. It's ridiculous. I thought Celine Dion's wedding was ridiculous, and they can afford it.

[laredo44]

If you can't trust someone not to step out on you, how can you trust them at all?

Is a sexual betrayal of trust more serious than another betrayal of trust? Isn't it the loss of trust, by whatever means the problem?

[Centurion2000]

Men who stay celibate at 33 are pretty much either gay or impotent.

Or they have been BURNED by a woman.

[Pan_Yans Wife]

I am all for abstinence before marriage... I don't need to take the bet. I think this is not only what God planned, but what protects the promiscuous from psychological torture. Emotionally mature people can wait until marriage, saving themselves lots of heart ache. Unfortunately, there are many people who don't wait. I was one of those people. And now, as a happily married woman, I think of the time I wasted, and the self-respect that I damaged by buying into society's view of what sex should be. Hindsight is always 20/20... and I hope that my children will not make my mistakes.

[litany_of_lies]

Great post. I could not agree more, both societally and personally.

[Gabrielle Reilly]

>>>>I can't believe how much money couples spend on weddings. It's ridiculous. I thought Celine Dion's wedding was ridiculous, and they can afford it.>>>>>

LOL. Anything over $350.00 for the entire wedding day sounds insane to me no matter if your a multi-millionaire or poor. I would rather buy real estate and not have the pressure of such a special day being such a drama.

Have fun.

[sruleoflaw]

Mister Magoo, you really don't know what you're talking about. So there is something wrong with someone if they don't have sex until their 30's or 40's. As a Christian who badly wanted to be married (but wanted to find the right woman), I did not have sex until I was 41 when I got married. I disliked being single and I wanted to be married, but I made a conscious choice to not have sex until I married... And now I'm married to a great woman. I HAVE A SUGGESTION FOR YOU: Don't give people bad advice.

[Nowhere Man]

Do you mean you were watching "Ann of GreenGables" from Prince Edward Island or is that another show?

I watched both the Anne movies and the Avonlea TV series. The "Anne of Green Gables" movies were based on the book series of the same names by Lucy Maude Montgomery although I think the third movie did "jump the shark" plus it wasn't part of the books anyhow. The "Avonlea" TV series was based on another book by the same author, I think the book was called "The Story Girl" about a girl who can to live in the town of Avonlea and wrote short stories of what happened there and her experiences. I liked both myself, I would recommend the books and movies for family viewing.

[RipSawyer]

"All except for one difference, which is that a hundred years ago few man would wait till age 33+ to get married in the first place ;-)"

My paternal grandfather was born in 1879 and he waited until he was 31 to marry and he raised 4 sons and 4 daughters. Actually I think it was not that unusual for a man to be 30 or so before marrying someone who was often 10 or more years younger. In my own case I turned 21 in 1965 and in that era it was very common in the southeast for young men to be married and have children by 22. By the time I was 23 people were acting as though something was wrong with me because I was not married yet.
As for whether my grandfather was celibate until marriage, I seriously doubt it, I certainly wasn't.