Techies see jobs go overseas - Opposition to offshore outsourcing beginning to grow

San Francisco Chronicle ^ | 06/02/2003 | Carrie Kirby

[NCjim]

Daniel Soong waited in line at the dingy, low-ceilinged Employment Development Department in Pleasant Hill, hoping to find some clerical work or any kind of work at all.

At 30, this is not where the thin, neatly dressed computer programmer expected to be. Nor did he expect, after seven years in the technology industry, to have to move back into his parents' Pleasanton house.

"I would like to meet a girl and start a family, but that's not really possible unless you have a good job," he said.

Unlike many people who have lost their jobs during the economic slump, Soong does not hold out much hope that his career will get back on track when the economy picks up. He belongs to a growing contingent of technology professionals who believe that prospects for their field have permanently dimmed because companies are sending work overseas.

Soong and others like him are forming the beginning of an anti- offshoring movement. In California, Connecticut, New Jersey and Washington, groups of computer professionals are searching for ways -- from legislation to tax incentives -- to somehow slow the flow of high-paying jobs overseas.

[Gritty]

in 2008 when Hillary is elected president... add them to the list of people pulling the lever for her.

I unhappily agree with you.

The GOP better get on board, fast. Eliminate the Income Tax Amendment and go back to the original tax system, shrink the government, stop unfettered illegal immigration, cut back on environmental fascism and impossible regulations, and start standing up for American jobs and businesses rather than globalism.

Otherwise, the Democrats will promise it (but have no intention of delivering it) and murder the GOP at the ballot box. Hitlery will be President, and we'll all either be permanently screwed or forced back onto our last resort, the genuine purpose of the Second Amendment. Either way will be ugly beyond description!

[harpseal]

Like you I am former military RVN 1968 & 1969 USN CPO Radioman cross trained as Corpsman with ST2 and UDT 14. i also have a great deal of experience in IT mostly commercial applications although for some very sensitive clients at times. He is spouting on subjects where he admits his ignorance, by the way. when one states facts his response os prove it so today when I replied to him I gave him some refernces.

[harpseal]

I di read that analogy and liked it very much. It accurately sums up the situation. I think the best quote from pukin dog that sums up his anti-American stand is he would be happy to see Chinese convict labor imported to the USA to lower business costs it would be good for American. How extremely left wing can one get than to favor reinstitution of slavery in the USA.

[Drango]

#103-Yeah, well playing with themselves the other 90% of the time doesn't help productivity... sorry :-)

Ok, I'll try to explain it to you; the phrase "playing with themselves" relates to an act males have been accused of doing with thier...never mind. I can't explain it any more than that. And I'm really sorry you didn't get the humor and I accept the blame for not being very funny. My bad.

And my last response to the subject.

[harpseal]

lets see now a company moves to europe and immediately starts longing for the low tax USA. the places wghere they can move and get a low tazx envirornment ardo not generally incluse Western Europe. If we are talking about somneplace outside Western europe yone is talking if lanuage problems and/or political risk especially since senior management would ghave to move there. The political risk exposure is what makes moving teh Corporate HQ outside teh USA so risky.

Not everything is cost savings. Very few corporate executives look forward to the idea of living in the People's Republic of China even as a foreign executive without the idea of coming back to the USA often. Then we are talking about drying up the labor savings with teh cost of the senior management having to fly back to the States to relax.

[Lefty-NiceGuy]

where to go if you want leave the states and see the world Hmm, West Europe, I'm in Germany don't move here if want to avoid taxes. All the companies here are going to Holland and Luxenburg. My favorite EU place Monoco, at some point not paying taxes is worth having to pay $60 for a beer. That's why really rich people go there. If you can hold on till then end of the year, all hell's breaking loose. The Czech Republic and bunch of east Europe is going be 100% EU bonnified free trade euro zone. Thier taxes are low, there cost of living is really low ($3 for a steak dinner), and they've got cute girls that speak german or english. Hell throw in climbing and snowboarding -- someone what to give me a job there?!?

[Lefty-NiceGuy]

Oh wow man you mentioned "WTO, IMF, G8 and yes, the UN"!!!
I thought this site was full of conservatives. I thought only "them dang hippies" got pissed off about globalism. I guess they do it for a different reason: they say that those organizations screw little poor countries with no influence on thier decisions. You seem to believe they screw the big countries too. Maybe you're both right and everyone is getting screwed as you say buy corporations. Maybe you should close ranks. I'm not saying you should be throwing rocks like those morons in Geneva.

"corporate governance" -- we've had that before the WTO globalization of companies is just allowing them to grow even more powerful relative to democratic movements within individual countries. Someone here once told me there may come a time when we have to choose between the survival of the nation state and international corporations, and that we should choose the nation state. There seems to be split here in what the "conservative" position is.

[harpseal]

While eastern Europe has some advantages its infrastucture is not really in placeto support a massive influx of businesses. their geographic closesneess to Russia increases th political risk factor and while the cost of goods and services are low relative to the US dollar the weakening dollar will soon make them more expensive. All in all hard to justify the expense of moving the corporate HQ. However, the cute and friendly girls alone may do the trick.

[harpseal]

that my friend is precisely the problem. If the GOP does not do something about this then get ready for a very unpleasent ride.

[FenderMan]

BIG BUMP! Right On! I am one of those IT professionals whose job is now held by a H1B, tell me again how easy it is to get another job or retool!

[harpseal]

As you well know the accountants and teh people who are not creating systems only see the cost of people working on the project they do not see the final output. the peopel who get the end product are often unhappy with te results becuase what comes out is not a productivity enhancing tool rather it cheaper systemthat often does not work right but the accountants are happy because the costs were kept down this quarter and the resulting degradation in productivity does not show up until later. It does make one wonder if the drop in increasing american productivity is directly correlated with the rise in outsourcing to India China and other rplaces.

[harpseal]

By the way get ready for some of the Free traders to villify you with insults for not working hard or saving for a rainy day or whatever. It really boils down to them not wanting you to be their slave.

[FenderMan]

BIG BUMP! Right On! I am one of those IT professionals whose job is now held by a H1B, tell me again how easy it is to get another job or retool!

[clamper1797]

GET A JOB you WHINER !!!!!!!!!! (/sarcasm)

[Ben Bolt]

Place marker bump .

[Ben Bolt]

Interesting to read this reply from you , then read you're profile page then back to the reply you give here . I'll leave it at that for now .

[Ben Bolt]

Good job . When you see the need to hammer away at some of that granite I'll loan you my sledge .

[illumini]

If as you say, you really work in this industry and are aware such gross violations, and also know of people being fired for refusing to sign off on faulty work (as you said)and you do nothing, then you are responsible and just as guilty of endangering thousands of peoples lives as well.

I actually wrote to our Sr. corporate officers, copied FAA, cooperated with an investigation and made sure a lot of things got fixed. Supervisors told me if they did the same, they would have lost their jobs. At Alaska Airlines, and mechanic named John Liotine wore a wire and helped get supervisors busted by FAA. He also wrote-up the very jackscrew which failed, causing multiple deaths. The documentation was penciled-off by ASA managers, but in the end the FAA and management colluded in their findings, stating that failure occured because someone used the wrong lubricant which caused corrosion. Never mind the thing was at its design limits on the "C" check. No one went to jail in that criminal fiasco. Dateline NBC did a story on this!

[dljordan]

They're moving the manufacturing jobs out of Mexico now to Asia. Expect to see more "Undocumented Migrant Guest Workers" on the way up soon.

[Jorge]

I actually wrote to our Sr. corporate officers, copied FAA, cooperated with an investigation and made sure a lot of things got fixed. Supervisors told me if they did the same, they would have lost their jobs. At Alaska Airlines, and mechanic named John Liotine wore a wire and helped get supervisors busted by FAA. He also wrote-up the very jackscrew which failed, causing multiple deaths. The documentation was penciled-off by ASA managers, but in the end the FAA and management colluded in their findings, stating that failure occured because someone used the wrong lubricant which caused corrosion. Never mind the thing was at its design limits on the "C" check. No one went to jail in that criminal fiasco. Dateline NBC did a story on this!

You mean the crash of Alaska Airlines Flight 261, the MD-83 that went down in the Pacific?

In the end the National Transportation Safety Board seemed to spread the blame around,
...the FAA for failure in their oversight of Alaska when it came to monitoring airline maintenance and inspections,
..a mechanic who lacked knowledge as to the proper lubrication procedure,
.. and mechanics, facing a deadline to complete the check, wrongly concluded the jackscrew was within its wear limit and never followed up on the original replacement request.

Like you, I can't believe nobody went to jail, especially if, as you say management penciled-off documentation on the original write-up on the jackscrew.

My point was that these sorts of things will always end up coming out when the Airline industry tries to cut corners and resort to cheap outsourcing of work, and inferior shops or suppliers are used in an attempt to save money. It comes back to bite them in the end.