Techies see jobs go overseas - Opposition to offshore outsourcing beginning to grow

San Francisco Chronicle ^ | 06/02/2003 | Carrie Kirby

[NCjim]

Daniel Soong waited in line at the dingy, low-ceilinged Employment Development Department in Pleasant Hill, hoping to find some clerical work or any kind of work at all.

At 30, this is not where the thin, neatly dressed computer programmer expected to be. Nor did he expect, after seven years in the technology industry, to have to move back into his parents' Pleasanton house.

"I would like to meet a girl and start a family, but that's not really possible unless you have a good job," he said.

Unlike many people who have lost their jobs during the economic slump, Soong does not hold out much hope that his career will get back on track when the economy picks up. He belongs to a growing contingent of technology professionals who believe that prospects for their field have permanently dimmed because companies are sending work overseas.

Soong and others like him are forming the beginning of an anti- offshoring movement. In California, Connecticut, New Jersey and Washington, groups of computer professionals are searching for ways -- from legislation to tax incentives -- to somehow slow the flow of high-paying jobs overseas.

[dfwgator]

Interesting you mention lawyers, law firms now are sending offshore out a lot of the grunt work that fresh out of law school associates were doing in the past. Methinks a lot of future law school graduates are going to be in for a huge disappointment when they find that law firms no longer need their services (unless they graduated from Harvard, that is)

[SwordofTruth]

tell us who is going to be left to pay taxes into our system when its done?

These the people don't think that far into the future, it would hurt their poor little heads to think that hard.

[Republican Party Reptile]

If Soong is an oriental and the programming jobs are going to orientals, what's the difference? He came here for a job and now finds they are elsewhere? Two wrongs don't make a right.

THAT, is one reason why we continue to have racial and ethnic based divison in this country. There are still people who automatically assume a non-European sounding last name must be a foreigner.

Personal story - you know what I always hated when I was growing up? The qeustion people asked me:

"where are you from?"

"Texas" I answered.

"no, where you are you from originally?"

"Texas", I answered again.

"I mean, where were you born?"

"Texas", I answered once more

"Oh ... where are your parents from?"

"China", I said

"oh, so you are Chinese?"

To our collective credit, I don't get that line of question anymore (well, on rare occasions I still do).

[SwordofTruth]

If Soong is an oriental and the programming jobs are going to orientals, what's the difference? He came here for a job and now finds they are elsewhere? Two wrongs don't make a right.

Why do you assume he came to America? Because his last name is Soong?

[ex-snook]

I hope you will vote for candidates against NAFTA job out-sourcing.
----=========

First they came for the auto workers
and I did not speak out
because I was not an auto worker.
Then they came for the steel workers
and I did not speak out
because I was not a steel worker.
Then they came for the clothing  workers
and I did not speak out
because I was not a clothing worker.
Then they came for the computer workers
and I did not speak out
because I was not a computer worker.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.
 

 

[1rudeboy]

What do you Pukin Dog do for a living?

I see that question a lot on these sort of threads. What difference does it make? What if PD is a high-school student? What if PD is a retired senior on disability?

[NoControllingLegalAuthority]

At the moment, millions of Americans are wondering if the reason they can't find a job is a problem with their own resume.' It is soon going to dawn on most Americans that NO American resume' will be good enough because there are simply far too many Americans looking for work in this country than there are jobs available. This translates into lower wages, a lower standard of living and ultimately, deflation.

Free trade was supposed to EXPORT a higher American standard of living to poorer countries. It actually is resulting in the IMPORT of third-world poverty into America.

What is happening right now is a global slowdown in business which is because America, the economic engine of the world, has been economically devastated by outsourcing. Corporate executives have killed the golden goose by destroying job opportunities in America.

Americans cannot buy if they cannot earn!

[oceanview]

because when you see this happening first hand, it has a bearing on your opinion on it. if someone is a retired public school teacher, they have no first hand perspective on this.

[1rudeboy]

Point taken. But if we limited ourselves to on hearing from folks with "first and perspective," we fall away from objectivity and into victim-methodology.

[SwordofTruth]

They also did not have an income tax, instead they used duties on all foreign imported goods to help raise money and protect the domestic producers.

They did this and this nation became the most prosperous country on the face of the Earth. Now corporations are only thinking about the immediate future and are saying to hell with patriotism let's just make us a fast buck. I say to hell with them, it's about time this so called "free trade" ends before we are a communist country.

[for-q-clinton]

But they are global companies. Sure they may have their HQ here, and the US Tax system punishes them for that. How much more patriotic do they have to be? They are paying an unfair US global tax. Do they also have to make all their foreign workers sign an oath to defend the US?

Just like if an American worker works at a BMW plant in South Carolina...does that make him pledge an oath to server Germany?

[oceanview]

everyone is entitled to their opinion, that's a given. But when, in addition to the information published in the various articles that start these threads, posters report their first hand experiences with these issues, that they see everyday at work, then someone comes along and tell us we don't know what we are talking about, its frustrating.

[oceanview]

the US is now BMWs #1 market, just edging out Germany, that's why they build cars here. Please point out where India imports huge amount of US goods to justify sending all out IT jobs to them?

[NCjim]

I hope this wont just became another 1000+ post/screaming match...

I hope not either. I think that the key is finding a niche that requires physical presence. In other threads auto mechancics has been given as an example. In the IT field, there is a wealth of opportunity in consulting. Even software products that are written offshore are used by companies ranging from mom-and-pop businesses to the Fortune 100. Even the largest companies are finding that resident IT staff are too expensive to maintian full-time, so they are depending more and more on outside consultants to come in when needed. And the need is growing - once they lose the resident skills they are forever dependent on consultants.

My advice? Go for one or more professional certifications which although are no silver bullet, at least demonstrate a degree of knowledge in a particular field. Or do what a retired relative of mine did - learned enough about Windows to help other retirees with their PCs. You'd be amazed at the number of people who will pay $50 for someone to come help them with what they consider a tough problem, but to an experienced IT person is trivial. Of course, if your goal is to keep up with the latst BMW, you may have to adjust your attitude first.

[for-q-clinton]

Well, I can't show you where India does, but I can show you where Asia does. And India happens to be a country that's educating their people in IT.

[oceanview]

China steals most of the copies of Windows on their computers, they copy US CDs and DVDs, when Cisco tried to sell products there, they found a Chinese company took the first units and made cheap knock offs from them. China has no regard for US copyright and patent laws, none. And I am sure India is not far behind. So what are we selling them, soap and coca-cola?

[harpseal]

Alternative solutions for staying competitive in the USA.

1. Rigidly enforce the H1B and L1 Visa rules so that in order to get an H1B visa approved for someone coming into the USA it must be absolutely proven there is no American willing to take the job offered for within ten percent of the current prevailing wage in the area.

2. Remove the investment tax credit and guarantees of principle security given by teh US government for overseas investments.

3. Create enterprise zones where companies may voluntarily locate to produce goods our services free of corporate income tax for those operations. Include provisions for minimal regulation and that the companies only keep their tax free status as long as any purchase they make that can be produced in america will be produced in America and all employees will be either citizens or landed immigrants to teh USA with green card.

4. Remove the corporate income tax from profits created from exporting american content. 5. Impose tariffs on those nations that subkect American goods and services to tariffs or those nations that use currency controls to keep capital in their nations. Those tarriffs should be on all goods and services that are from such a nation.

6. Rigidly enforce all immigration laws.

7. Stop the Federal government from subsidizing foreign students in the USA.

8. Remobve the price controls from any industry that has them for example healthcare.

9. Make the export of any nationally sensitive (related to natyional security) technology or information a felony. The cat is mostly out of the bag on this but further harm is done daily.

10 Revise the regulatory structure to encourage domestic manufacture and investment in the USA.

11. Remove the capital gains tax on investments made to manufacture any product in the USA.

12. Stop all government contracts that outsource offshore if the product or service can be created within the USA.

13. Stop all foreign aid to any nation that has barriers to the sale of American goods or services.

14. revise the tax code to provide more income to the people and cut the size of government.

[raybbr]

Americans cannot buy if they cannot earn!

To the super-capitalists in this group this does not factor into their world. It is more important that they can buy cheap stuff from Wal-Mart. We are becoming a nation of I have's and I wish I could have's.

[harpseal]

So what are we selling them, soap and coca-cola?

Both products are mostly produced in India and China.