IRAQ: Weapons of Mass Disappearance - (Where are the WMD? Manipulation to go to War? )

time ^ | Sunday, Jun. 01, 2003 | MICHAEL DUFFY

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

From the Link above at post # 47:

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"It (Iraq/Saddam regime) admitted, among other things, an offensive biological warfare capability notably 5,000 gallons of botulinum, which causes botulism; 2,000 gallons of anthrax; 25 biological-filled Scud warheads; and 157 aerial bombs.

Despite Iraq's deceptions, UNSCOM has nevertheless done a remarkable job. Its inspectors the eyes and ears of the civilized world have uncovered and destroyed more weapons of mass destruction capacity than was destroyed during the Gulf War.

This includes nearly 40,000 chemical weapons, more than 100,000 gallons of chemical weapons agents, 48 operational missiles, 30 warheads specifically fitted for chemical and biological weapons, and a massive biological weapons facility at Al Hakam equipped to produce anthrax and other deadly agents.

1 posted on 05/30/2003 9:00 PM PDT by FairOpinion
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[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

Right!

[Buckeroo]

I wonder if OBL is still on the federal government's payroll.

[Peach]

Glad I guessed right! It's so clear who has read or watched anything produced about Iraq and Saddm and who hasn't through the years that it's hardly worth discussing with those who have theories but no facts at their disposal. Regards, Peach

[scriblett]

I have to agree with you. I can't believe that Bush has lied to us, but it does look like the intelligence information has been faulty. Tony Blair promised to resign if no WMDs were found, hopefully they will find something soon.
If not there is a lot of explaining to do, regardless of how bad Saddam is/was.
Discussion these issues doesn't make anyone unpatriotic or a left winger for that matter, the issued have to be looked at objectively.

I actually heard one of our right wing radio hosts say that he was almost ready to apologize to Chretien (barf), not yet, but if nothing found in a couple of months he will.

[fooman]

Rwanda, Ivory Coast and Congo are the euros problem. We are not responsible for all the problems and since it is in thier sphere of influence, they should BUCK UP and pay for security in their area. Same is true for Kosovo.

[Peach]

I agree with you completely. I was trying to point out additionally that the argument we don't help other nations with human rights problems is because those other nations haven't repeatedly attacked our and haven't made it their stated goal to use WMD to bring down the United States. That little tidbit seems to escape the notice of all too many.

[templar]

Do you honestly believe Saddam wouldn't sell WMD to AQ?

Peach, do you honestly believe that AQ would have to buy WMD's from Iraq? If AQ wanted them they could just as easily (maybe more easily) make them themselves and avoid the risk of detection. And there are a number of sources for them on the international weapons black market (Russia comes to mind, maybe China too). They're not exactly that exotic. H*ll, you or I could make them if we had a mind to do so.

What we were sold is a bill of goods that Iraq had massive quantities deployable WMD's and were going to use them against us. Obviously not the case. It's no shame to fall for a lie. It is a tragedy to defend that lie after it becomes apparent you were lied to. I doubt that Bush lied to us deliberately. He probably fell for lies that were told to him for reasons known only to the teller. Let's see how he handles it. It ends up as an ego and pride situation for all of us (ego gets me in a position, pride keeps me there) and is a test of true charachter.

[fooman]

The found mobile labs and mustard and nerve agents found in the Euphrates river are enough for me.

But the Al quada found in Bagdad along with Salmon PAk and the cell in Kurdistan are also important reminders.

[Peach]

Templar - making a few weapons of mass destruction isn't terribly difficult. Iraq had more than a few - he devoted BILLIONS of dollars to his program. He used them, repeatedly and brutally. He threatened the entire region with them.

I don't believe I fell for a lie. You do. That's a shame and must disappoint you terribly.

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

A little history being discussed :

Democrats resorting to scare tactics to attack Bush

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The launch of the Sputnik satellite, the first manned spacecraft to orbit the earth, by the USSR in October 1957 created panic in America. How could the homeland be safe as long as Russia could violate our airspace unchallenged?

Democratic politicians vying for the presidential nomination sought to squeeze partisan gain from the people's fear. Missouri Sen. Stuart Symington, followed shortly by Massachusetts Sen. John F. Kennedy, accused President Eisenhower of allowing Russia to pull ahead of us in ICBM production.

They declared that the Russian ICBM stock soon would surpass our own. Thus was born one of the greatest fables in modern presidential politics, the nonexistent missile gap of 1960.

It is said that there is nothing new under the sun. Florida Sen. Bob Graham, a recent entrant to the Democratic presidential field, claims to know that al-Qaida is regrouping and that President Bush has been largely unsuccessful in his strategy against the terror network.

As if on cue, Sen. John Kerry of Massachusetts is playing a devastating Kennedy to Graham's Symington. Meet the "terror gap."
......................

[fooman]

I agree with your arguments as well. The euros spend less than 2% of their GDP on defense. Thats a sham.

So the US is bad when we dont help and bad when we do. Right.

We have the ME, LAtin america, China and Korea to worry about.

We even gave 15B for africa aids. Since the euros have more population, they should buck up at least 20b.

And dont get me started on how americans subsidize drug reseach for the rest of the world....

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

H*ll, you or I could make them if we had a mind to do so.

I think you are wrong about that!

[Buckeroo]

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"I don't believe I fell for a lie." -- Peach

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It doesn't much matter what you believe, does it? You fell for the BIG_LIE and all you do is sit there regurgitating the old government spin .... which is a lie.

[templar]

Ernest, that quote is about disclosed, discovered, and destroyed weapons and a destroyed facility. It doesn't indicate that anything was current. If anything, it supports Saddams claim that his stuff was all disclosed and/or destroyed and that he didn't have them anymore.

BTW, Clinton isn't a real good source to use for honest evaluation of anything.

[Peach]

The Democrats are going to outwit themselves. The world changed on 9/11 and when Tony Blair famously said before the UN "does anyone doubt if those 19 hijackers on 9/11 could have filled those planes with ricin or sarin gas that they wouldn't have? Then we wouldn't be looking at 3,000 dead but 300,000 or more dead".

He was right then and he's right today. Regime change was one stated goal, and we reached that. WMD elimination was another goal and we will either find where they are hidden all throughout the country or we will find where they were sold in the six months previous to the war.

Either way, it's a better world without Saddam's rape rooms and torture rooms; the left has never met a dictator they didn't support and seemingly admire.

[tsmith130]

"If anything, it supports Saddams claim that his stuff was all disclosed and/or destroyed and that he didn't have them anymore. ____________________________________________________________ And Blix didn't report this "fact" why? Funny how you afford Saddam the benefit of the doubt but not Bush.

[Peach]

I know. The hate/blame America first crowd has even started appearing on FR. The propoganda of the 60 Minutes and quick soundbite crowd is working; the left must be pleased.

It takes too long for most to read about geopolitics and the Vietnam generation is still with us and have never gotten over the lies told to the nation at that time. It's understandable but regretable.

As for Europe, they have turned a blind eye to more atrocities than anyone but always seem to expect us to risk our treasure to fix it all for them and blame us when it doesn't go exactly according to plan.

My first question when meeting someone from Europe is: Are you from the part of Europe whose arse we saved or whose arse we kicked? The conversation can proceed from there (or not).

[templar]

I think you are wrong about that!

I don't want to talk about making the stuff on an open forum, but do a bit of research at any decent public or university library (don't check out the books or use the internet, the FBI is watching and you'll end up as a terror suspect even if you aren't even vaguely close to being such). The precursors are, more than likely, avilable to you in very large quantities within 50 miles of your residence. Even that Jap terrorist group (forgot the name) didn't have any problem making quantities of the stuff and Japan is much more restrictive than we are.