Teachers earn more than editors & reporters

email ^ | Craig J. Cantoni

[hsmomx3]

The Summer 2003 edition of the education journal "Education Next" has statistics on teacher pay from the Bureau of Labor Statistics that match my own research. To quote: "Teachers earn more per hour than architects, civil engineers, mechanical engineers, statisticians, biological and life scientists, registered nurses, university-level foreign-language teachers, and editors and reporters." The statistics exclude benefits, which are far richer for teachers than for private-sector employees.

On a related note, the web site of a private citizen has great graphs and stats on government spending. One graph shows how education productivity has declined by 70 percent over the last 40 years, based on the ratio of SAT scores to inflation-adjusted per-pupil spending. The graph can be found at:

http://mwhodges.home.att.net/education.htm

Regards,

Craig J. Cantoni

Capstone Consulting Group

480-661-8175

Fax 480-661-8155

[glory]

Or Dianna, you could choose to make a difference without going on the public's bill. Why choose to a be a public school teacher? Don't you think you couldn't make a difference with your OWN children? At a private school? If you were to homeschool, co-oping out your teacher expertise? How about volunteering for community programs?

Perhaps your intentions are good, but your creativity is seriously lacking if you think the only, or even best way to "help kids" is by becoming a public school teacher and becoming part of the gears of a system that is anything but helpfut and interested in children.

[Diva Betsy Ross]

Part of the problem with you people in "education" you don't do research and you can not use judgement. YOu can look up any of the info I gave you about myself. It is all true. I have stated all this before right here on FR. YOu don't believe I am a homeschool Mom of two with a bcakground in school sical work and have worked with many kids? YOu don't believe I volunteer for the school district? Look it up.

After reading this post, where the people who are supposed to be "teachers" present their best arguments as name calling and running away from the thread, I see my consideration of teachers were too high.

I did make one mistake adding up the weeks of vacation,however everything else I have said is right on target. YOu people are pathetic on this thread. Talk about a bunch of uneducated, emotionaly driven, unprofessional people.

Instaed of debating any of the issues of failing schools and people with poor teaching skills, you call me names. With people like you in charge of education, it is no wonder our young people are so confused and brain dead.

Then again I suspect I am really talking to a teenager with about as much life's experience as my five year old. I believe we have some men who are a bit light in the rational thought department and hysterical women who are used to using their shrill voices as weapon. It was interesting to me that you did not address the teachers on this post who agreed with me. I hope those teachers get a raise... at least I hope they are wmart enough to know there is a tax rebate for teachers. YOu and your pals who are trying to shut me up are not even smart enough to look it up. Waht a bunch of losers.

[Richard Kimball]

why do so many young teachers leave the profession after just a few years?

I don't think pay is the reason teachers leave. Teaching is a very good profession in terms of job security and time off. There are trade-offs to any profession. The most money I ever made was when I was in sales, but there is absolutely no job security in commission sales. Good commission salespeople can become filthy rich, though, and a good saleperson can ALWAYS find a job. In teaching, you trade the lucrative aspects for the security and the benefits.

Most teachers, IMHO, do not leave because of the salary or the benefits. Private schools that generally can't compete with public schools on pay scale or benefits don't have that many problems attracting teachers, at least in my experience, although they're always looking for a good teacher, and will make room for someone who's capable of teaching. The reason teachers like private schools is that the demonic students can be removed from the classroom. Most teachers leave teaching because managing a modern public school classroom and teaching are no longer possible.

The working conditions for classroom teachers in public schools are impossible, if you actually want to teach something. Almost every big city teacher can tell stories about students cursing teachers out or even assaulting them, and showing up back in class within a half hour with an "I'm the principal's buddy" sticker on their shirt. Teachers aren't allowed to break up fights anymore, because one of the students in the fight may sue them. On top of that, politicians are promising higher test scores, and then passing the burden to the classroom teacher, when they have effectively removed all capability of maintaining classroom order and discipline, and demand social promotions. My daughter wanted to be an elementary school teacher, but I talked her into teaching at college. You're a lot less likely to be assaulted, and college students at least want to be there.

[Renegade]

I honestly believe that a child should decide where or what they want to do in life by the end of eighth grade .If they WANT to work at a trade or labor, train them . If they WANT to further their education , teach them . This way students are not forced to take a myriad of useless courses that will have no bearing whatsoever in future employment .
If they want to enter military training let them.
That is my opinion.
I am also a strong advocate of the voucher system. I can't understand why a student who WANTS to learn has to spend his educational years in a hellhole with the only alternative being private schooling or home schooling .
On another point, character education , which is the new coin word in education, is the responsibility of the parents and not the educational system ( as well as breakfast and other related items that came about because of the rise in the numbers of dysfunctional families )

[Principled]

WHo said I am a teacher???

You made that up too.

Shill? That would be you.

It is likely that you have few friends, save those who depend on you for money.

I own my own business. You can take your strong girl show to the circus. You are ignorant about the world.

You're part of the problem.

Perhaps your post was meant for someone else? It's full of things not true about me. I'm not a teacher. I can use judgem;ent and I can do research. When did you start htinking I would ever, ever care to do research on YOU???!!!

Do you think you're that special? You're some hole-in-the wall hateful individual with no friends.

[Principled]

It was interesting to me that you did not address the teachers on this post who agreed with me.

Other people had valid points. You just have classic, emotional, female rage.

That much should be clear. In addressing you and asking you to support your arguments I find name-calling and increased emotion and decreased rationality.

You're the stereotypical angry female. Good luck tyring to debate with that attitude. We're all laughing.

I may or may not read your reply to this. I've been around enough manipulative women to simply ignore your game. Bye.

[justshutupandtakeit]

"Tax rebates for being a teacher?" LoL the things some people believe.

[Diva Betsy Ross]

The old I am taking my ball and going home move. I am laughing at you. Classic liberal tactic. What is the matter you can't bear to think a female has taken you to the mat? You will read this because you are a classic passive agressive male who wishes you could stand up for something. The problem is you have no convictions other than being part of an entitled class of people.

You are a liberal and you should not be surprised that a conservative, male or female, will meet you and you ilk with a bit of rage. Your class of people, you know :the I am alive and entitled to benefits crew, are sucking the rest of the hard working Americans dry. I educate two boys everyday for no money from taxpayers... you people want more and more and more.. yet give no yeild. We are sick of it.

Get used to the rage my friend. YOu people will have to start producing, or find another line of work. The good teachers will raise to the ocassion, because for them it is more than their benefits, and their vaction and grading papers at night.

[Eva]

The quality of public school education is inversely proportionate to the growth of the NEA.

I have been repeating this statement for fifteen years, every time the subject of the NEA or failing public schools arises. Fortunately for Washington State, we have been saved from some of the worst abuses of the NEA by the super majority rule for raising school taxes. Unfortunately for Washington State, we have some of the lowest paid teachers in the country.

I have a proposal to do a kind of end around play on the NEA. My plan stems from an article that I once read in the Los Angeles Times that described a professional as one who follows a career which necessitates a university degree and puts public service before financial remuneration. By this definition there can be no such thing as a professional union.

I propose that we have two levels of teachers, a professional level and a union level. The professional level would be paid at a higher rate, would work a year around schedule and would be expected to work a professional work day, from eight to five. The union level teacher would continue to work the union schedule at union wages(Maybe paid hourly). The schools would be operated on a year around basis with summer sessions being offered by the professional level teachers. Special class offerings in AP classes, the arts, athletics, FFA, as well as remedial classes could be offered by professional level teachers. There would be a professional department head in each discipline area that would be responsible for the union level teachers.

Students could be offered the option of completing their education in less than the usual twelve years, or offered the possibility of attending year around classes on a part time basis while taking classes at a technical school or working part time or staying in school and receiving college credit for high school work. Schools which opted for this program could open their summer courses to students from outside the district for a fee.

The benefits of this type of program would be that the local school district would regain control of curriculum; better teachers would be inspired by the more professional level of pay; the choices and opportunities that would be offered to students would be greatly multiplied and hopefully inspire them to excellence. At the same time the union wage positions would still be open to teachers who prefer the shorter hours and long vacations while raising a family of their own.

[Diva Betsy Ross]

psst...... hey guy did you look it up yet. Teachers get $250.00 check from the governement for "covering " the cost of out of pocket supplies. I call it re-distrubition of wealth.. some call it a rebate. I happen to know homeschoolers are not entitled to the money ,and we are plently resentful of that. There has been much discussion on the topic. You looked it up before responding ... right. No I guess that would make some work on your part. Not something you people enjoy, huh?

[LanPB01]

Coming from a family in which both parents are educators, I have to agree that I can't stand the bellyaching I constantly heard from them about being underpaid. When I got out of law school, I took a job that paid $4,000 dollars a year less than starting teachers, and when you conisder that I worked year round and about twice as many hours, I wondered what they were always complaining about.

True, teachers aren't exactly living the high life, economically. Then again, if I worked about five hours a day and made what they make, I probably wouldn't complain too much.

[LanPB01]

I can't provide a link, but I have a buddy that's been a teacher in Kentucky for about five years now. He told me that when he calculated how much he made per hour, it was over $40. That's twice what new attorneys can expect to make in this state, per hour.

[Diva Betsy Ross]

Hi, it is me butt munch.. I am a stay at home mom, I homeschool two boys. Benefits from the state.....$0
Salary......................$0
paid vacation days..........$0
perks paid for by taxpayers.$0

BTW... you can't argue that my life's experience is no tmy experience. I have met many and worked with many teachers. This is my experience, just becuase you may or may not fit the description of those I ahve met, doesn't make me worng. YOu know there are plenty of teachers out there who do fit this description.

[justshutupandtakeit]

OHMYGOD I am going to rush out and become a teacher. Woowie 250 big ones. Other professionals have similiar deductions.

Incidentally that wouldn't come close to covering the expenditures my late wife, a teacher, expended on such things.

Home schoolers don't get it because this goes to JOB expense reimbursement. They have opted out of the job market. Maybe, if you paid yourself a salary you could get it.

"You people"? What "people" would that be?

[Diva Betsy Ross]

In all of my years of school, I have had three teachers who were really good. Good teachers are worth their weight in gold, bad teachers are blood suckers. I have seen so much abuse of the system it make me sick. I come from a family of teachers , I have friends and neighbors who are teachers and I grew up with the kids of teachers.

[netmilsmom]

Hi Lady!
>>There are some pretty generous salaries here in central Ohio and while the teachers are screaming to pass levies for the kids, not a one is willing to dip into the 80 percent of the budget that is their benefits and salaries so they don't cut ACADEMIC programs for children. <<

You know it!!! My sister is in Cleveland Public Schools. The rates of pay are on their website.
As I said, I think they should be paid a fair wage. From my experience, the teachers I know are all whiners.

[netmilsmom]

>> THe rank and file (public school) teacher is NOT liberal- that is anurban legend.<<

Whoa!!! Georgia must be another world from Ohio. Most of the teachers are liberal and in fact all the ones I know are lesbian or bisexual as well.
Geez, my daughter attends a Charter School and there were still teachers who had to be curbed from having the kids write a "Why we should not go to War." paper in the 2nd grade. And some of our kids are children from Selfridge AFB!

[netmilsmom]

>>True, teachers aren't exactly living the high life, economically. Then again, if I worked about five hours a day and made what they make, I probably wouldn't complain too much.<<

Thank You!

[Diva Betsy Ross]

Ummm.. educating my children is my job. I spend way more than $250 to do that, and I get no tax money. So Why should teachers be a privledged class of people? Some states would like to do away with income taxes at all for teachers.

Are you claiming to be a conservative? I am sorry for the loss of your wife, however I think you are way off base on this one. How about people pay for the schooling of their own kids. and in return we pay little taxes for public education. For the few kids who have no parents ,we can have some public education funds put aside. Even I will pay for that.

[netmilsmom]

>>Home schoolers don't get it because this goes to JOB expense reimbursement. They have opted out of the job market. Maybe, if you paid yourself a salary you could get it.<<

Homeschoolers pay their own salaries and pay the teacher's salaries through taxes. Perhaps if it were recognized that parents who homeschool deserve a break on expenses, instead of just being hostile, it would be more reasonable.