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To: The South Texan
As a fan of The Matrix, I was eager to see this sequel. After having seen it, I have mixed emotions.

THE GOOD: The special effects have once again raised the bar and are beyond belief or description. Also, the depth of plot that will "...really bake your noodle", in the words of The Oracle, are extremely well thought-out. I left the theater in deep thought, and it wasn't until the next day that I digested most of the plot line and where I think it's going. Pretty good writing...

THE BAD: This movie fully merits the "R" rating, unfortunately. There is a full 5-6 minute, completely un-necessary orgy/sex scene that seems to go on forever in what is supposed to be a "temple" in Zion. It is like something out of a pagan ritual. While we are treated to scenes of sweaty bodies grinding and groping, there are explicit scenes of Neo and Trinity having intercourse, orgasm and all. The sad thing is, none of this adds anything to the movie, which would have probably been "PG-13" had they simply edited out this 5-6 minute orgy. I don't know what is more shocking or disappointing: This scene being included in what was otherwise an excellent movie, or the fact that there was a family of a mom, dad, and three boys under the age of 10 in front of us.

OVERALL: Excellent movie, great effects, superb, deep, writing. But somewhat ruined by sexual content. I'd give it 4 out of 5 stars, but proceed with caution.

97 posted on 05/18/2003 2:06:05 PM PDT by iowaboy
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To: iowaboy
Yo7 know I just realized that that the "rave" scene kind of reminds me of the 10 commandments after the Hebrew people were freed from bondage. Of course the Hebrews were forced to wander for it.
98 posted on 05/18/2003 3:21:11 PM PDT by Bogey78O (check it out... http://freepers.zill.net/users/bogey78o_fr/puppet.swf)
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To: iowaboy
I thought the same thing -- the orgy/love scene and the chocolate cake scene were totally unnecessary. I almost got up and left for a few minutes because it was so disgusting. I was wondering what the purpose was, other than "shock value."

The language was also coarser and more repetitious than the first. Definitely not for kids.


139 posted on 05/19/2003 9:28:47 PM PDT by scott7278 (Four more years! Four more years!)
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To: iowaboy
THE BAD: This movie fully merits the "R" rating, unfortunately. There is a full 5-6 minute, completely un-necessary orgy/sex scene that seems to go on forever in what is supposed to be a "temple" in Zion. It is like something out of a pagan ritual. While we are treated to scenes of sweaty bodies grinding and groping, there are explicit scenes of Neo and Trinity having intercourse, orgasm and all. The sad thing is, none of this adds anything to the movie, which would have probably been "PG-13" had they simply edited out this 5-6 minute orgy. I don't know what is more shocking or disappointing: This scene being included in what was otherwise an excellent movie, or the fact that there was a family of a mom, dad, and three boys under the age of 10 in front of us.

I defended this in another forum: I need to now do so here. I found this scene not only to be completely necessary, but to have made the movie complete in a way no other scene prior did. Here's the cut-and-paste from my other post on this:

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It appears that I'm in a small minority of people who was utterly blown away by this movie. That's fine by me: I've thought of myself as a pretty unique person for a long time, and the people whose opinions on these kinds of things I most trust all seem to have had the same reaction that I did. So I know that I'm not crazy, but am instead in a pretty small group of people who seems to share a specific mindset; not better or worse, but just different. This is all fine by me.

But while I'm not going to tell anyone that they need to have the same opinion that I do, there is one scene in particular from this movie that many people seem to have missed the point of, and I need to now defend that. I do that below.

The scene in question is the rave/drum-circle/getdowngetfunky/orgy/whateveryouwanttocallit scene that's near the start of the movie. I've heard many complaints about this scene, from it being too long to it being distracting to it being not in sync with the rest of the movie. Here is why I think all these complaints miss the point.

When I was dutifully fulfilling my role as drooling fan-boy I remember listening to the speeches Morpheus gave in the previews about how this is a war, and we are all soldiers in it, asking whether or not victory is worth giving our lives for. I've long thought that there are things worse than death, and though I've learned better than to sacrifice myself to whatever the hippest cause at any moment is, I've kept in mind the necessity of not being afraid to make this choice, or that of any lesser sacrifices for that matter.

Yet there is another side to that equation. Yes, it is right to fight for what you believe in, and I do think that there is a great conflict coming soon in this country (and though I don't think it's going to come quite as soon as I originally believed, I still don't think it's that far in the future). But as much as I feel the need to be ready for it, doing so would be incomplete without the answer to a key question: why are we fighting?

It is that question that the dance scene answered. The reason to fight the machines is specifically to have nights like those, when man could celebrate being man, being alive. You cannot fight for life until you understand exactly the life you are fighting for. To dance, to sing, to meditate, to listen, to watch, to love, to enjoy your existence in whatever manner is most natural to you. These are the reasons to be alive. For all of the things that humans had to do in order to prepare themselves for the day of the great battle ahead, there was nothing more important than to have a night that would be in the front of their minds during that day.

Thus not only was this scene not a waste, it was critical, and the story would have been completely different without it. The rest of the trilogy so far shows how the humans wage their war. It does not show why they choose to continue. That a scene was included that answers that question makes the story whole, and given that purpose, 4 minutes I don't think is nearly a huge amount of time to spend on it. To bring this back to my own life, I often need nights similar to these to remind me of why I push onward. One gathering this last weekend filled that role very well for me.

For an analogy to this, think of the movie Glory (warning: spoliers on this one as well). The movie's climax consists of the protagonistic unit entering into a battle in which they already know they will suffer heavy casualties, if any of them live through it at all. So what do they do the night before to prepare for it? They sing. They gather around in a songful session to the Lord, with anyone who wants to giving words for what the day tomorrow will mean for them. As his entire unit hums in unison, Morgan Freeman's character delivers the devastating line, "May I fall tomorrow with a gun in one hand and a Bible in the other!" (paraphrased). This was of course more low-key than the similar scene in MR, but was equally powerful, and equally purposeful (and about as long, for that matter).

I won't go much into Morpheus's speech preceding it, but I have about the same defenses for it. He said exactly what I believe needed to be said (and about what I would have said given his spot, or would have wanted to hear if I were in Zion). If you understand that my favorite Elton John song is "I'm Still Standing", then perhaps that added to my explanation above can help you see why I felt his speech was the right thing at the right time.

This is just one scene. I'm going to see this multiple times in the theatres to start picking up all of the little details, but the first time through, I have personally almost no objections to anything I saw there. Again, this is up to everyone to discern on their own which is why I'm not going to get too preachy here, but the complaints about the above were too important for me to ignore. I think that understanding that scene does help one understand exactly where the Wachowski brothers are taking this entire trilogy, and thus even if people don't see this story the way I do, the importance of those 4 minutes is something I can't refrain from explaining from my perspective.

----------------

One thing I'll add that I didn't include above is that, just as much as it was necessary for those in the movie to partake in this, so is it also necessary for us as the veiwer to see that this is, in fact, part of the Wachowski brother's message, and that like the people in the story, their own explanation would be incomplete without it.

So there are my 2 cents, stretched for maximum usage. Take as you will, and thanks for listening.

143 posted on 05/20/2003 1:58:55 PM PDT by pupdog
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To: iowaboy
I have mixed feelings on that scene. As I was with my nephew, and had to cover his eyes (as if he hasn't seen bare backsides) I did feel uncomfortable with him there. However, as an adult, I appreciate the scene as a great going away party. I didn't really see orgy like activity as far as partner sharing. It seemed, just as it is in many night clubs, that people and/or couples were keeping to themselves, as Link and his wife did.

Also, I loved the track playing.
149 posted on 05/21/2003 4:41:27 PM PDT by Texaggie79 (pimps up, hoes down!)
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