Matrix Reloaded. Has Anybody seen it?

none | 5/16/03 | none

[The South Texan]

Just curious if anybody has seen this flick yet? The first one was great, but I have been disapointed with squels before.

[DoctorMichael]

....was your noodle baked?

No, but as soon as I ate my cookie I felt right-as-rain.

[EGPWS]

I, for one, thought it was fabulous....

Good enough for me...Tank, load me up!

[Michael Barnes]

Just got back from seeing the film..I thought it was great movie.

[No.6]

Warning! Spoiler/Criticism follows!

That Neo was the 6th/7th? "One". That Agent Smith will play a major role in the saving or destruction of Zion. That Neo has either, supernatural powers in real life and/or can control machines in real life........

Definitely No.6. No.1 (Neo, One) is actually No.6. Huge Prisoner reference (unlike the 0.1s of Prisoner footage in the first film), especially in Neo's subsequent actions :) Please, go find someone who has a tape or DVD of The Prisoner and watch the first episode, "Arrival" ... it'll only take 15 minutes of it before the Architect scene becomes very clear.

As for why Neo can stop squiddies ... you think that's the real world? Hmm.

Plenty of 'noodle-baking' things in M:R to chew on, but you have to not get dazed by all the fighting and special effects.

[Bogey78O]

The matrix guides us into making decisions. If we accept that Zion is another level to the matrix then the accident on the hovership that caused Trinity to have to go back in is a part of that guiding that the architect does. However yes. You eventually get to a point where choice can not be guided or at least entirely predicted.

As I heard someone say, it's like Deep Blue. It can predict every move you'll make and guide you into making certain decisions so you'll be where he wants you to be 10 moves down the way. However there's always that chance that you'll break behavior or you'll not choose as he predicted then he'll have to alter the playing strategy to get you into following his prediction.

Neo's choice at the end of Reloaded IMHO was not predicted by the Architect. He probably expected Neo to choose to save humanity. As a result the resistance would have been wiped out and it all could have begun again.

As he said....it all comes down to choice.

[Bogey78O]

Or better yet watch the final episode of the Prisoner.

Lots of insane dialogue there too.

[Bogey78O]

Interesting. I should rewatch it to see how many are on it.

[LayoutGuru2]

The 'Matrix'
ABS CBN News, Philippines - 2 hours ago
... If the Matrix films, the most philosophically-challenging movies to be produced ... of
the politics of its makers, then this subliminal equation (Hitler=Bush ...

[Festa]

I am not convinced by this hypothesis

[Sentis]

Neo is given the spoon as a method of explaining to him that zion is not real but part of the Matrix it's self.

When Neo says he can sense the sentinels he is telling us he now knows that zion and the outside world are really part of the matrix.

The computer set up zion as a refuge for people who would not accept the matrix. People who are dissatisfied with the life they are given and refuse it. Zion is full of minorities because it is minorities that most reject the world they have been given. Only victims end up in Zion. They are still plugged into the system but they believe they have escaped and are fighting against "The Man".

When Neo goes Unconscious he is entering the "Real" world outside the matrix. He can not just disappear from the zion matrix because that would alert the refuges to the zion matrix that they are not in the real world.

Hints can be found in the first movie. When the Neb explodes the EMP device to destroy the sentinels the world flows in a way that it flows when a major explosion occurs in the matrix or when neo uses his flight power.

Neo is able to disable the sentinels with his mind in a real world this is not possible.

Smith is able to implant himself in the body of a real human in Zion. Thus Zion is just another iteration of the Matrix.


You haven't left we still have you where we want you. The main computer lied to NEO all the other 6 choose the same path he did.

[Sentis]

In believe the counsel are computer constructs similar to the oracle. The computer expected NEO to choose to destroy the human race. The choice is life as a slave or death. "Give me liberty or Give me death" The choice was predetermined NEO had been programmed from the beginning to make the choice. The computers have no intention of destroying the matrix it was a lie they plan on letting Zion believe it has won the war and thus creating a satisfied group. The new disatisfied ones would create a new zion if Neo had chosen the first option.

[Sentis]

One last thing I believe the counsel are constructs because they are white. The rest of Zion is minority but the two most powerful counsel members are white. It seems to be a theme in Matrix. How many black agents are there? When the Matrix wants authority figures it creates white constructs when it wants people you trust it creates black constructs (the oracle.

[Bogey78O]

There were several blck council members. Cornell West was in fact one of them.

[Dr._Joseph_Warren]

Excellent analysis Sentis.

My son and I saw the movie last night. My son immediately brought up the idea of a Matrix within a Matrix idea and we have been debating it ever since.

Very interesting to see you detail his argument almost verbatum.

One question though. I still don't understand why the spoon is considered 'unused' (unbent?) and why this means they are not in the real world.

I recongnized Cornell West immediately and my son pointed out the heavily minority Zion population.

All in all, I thought it was an excellent movie. Great special effects action and plenty of thought provoking philosophical ideas that brings the best out of the science fiction genre.

[homefield]

12 counsel seats, of 23 possible selected to reconstruct matrix. Either my theory is wrong, some stayed in the matrix, or some died. There is a strange connection between Neo and Agent Smith, I think their relation will be the key part of Revolutions. He'll end up helping I think because they both want the same thing, to be free. Even though the trailer suggests otherwise, they'll realize they can't destroy each other because they're related in some way. Agent Smith I also believe violated protocol in killing Neo, that's why Neo was resurrected, because Neo was programmed to be the one, and Smith's vengence and rage (human emotion) took over and altered the program. Is Smith the only free person/machine??

[homefield]

The matrix within matrix is very logical, but I find that hard to believe for some reason. The hints are there, for instance as opposed to a greenish hue to the matrix, there is a bluish hue to the "real world". I may be over analyzing, but look when Neo wakes up for the first time in the first Matrix in the Nebuchadnezzar, the screen is all blue for a split second, almost like a system starting up. Furthermore the dream of Neo's of Trinity falling out of the building, Neo tries to tamper with, by not allowing Trinity to come into the Matrix. However a faulty bridge ends up killing the operator in the other ship and they can't avoid the machine attackers. As a result Naiobi and others sent in in Trinity's spot are killed. Almost as a way of showing that destiny can't be tampered with, because its all pre-programmed in one way or another. Furthermore, at that exact same time Morpheus is talking about how he doesn't believe in coincidence, or accident. This would suggest that the "real world" is under the control of machines-- a second matrix. The hints are certainly there in support of it, but it seems it would be alot to explain in a final movie.

[iowaboy]

As a fan of The Matrix, I was eager to see this sequel. After having seen it, I have mixed emotions.

THE GOOD: The special effects have once again raised the bar and are beyond belief or description. Also, the depth of plot that will "...really bake your noodle", in the words of The Oracle, are extremely well thought-out. I left the theater in deep thought, and it wasn't until the next day that I digested most of the plot line and where I think it's going. Pretty good writing...

THE BAD: This movie fully merits the "R" rating, unfortunately. There is a full 5-6 minute, completely un-necessary orgy/sex scene that seems to go on forever in what is supposed to be a "temple" in Zion. It is like something out of a pagan ritual. While we are treated to scenes of sweaty bodies grinding and groping, there are explicit scenes of Neo and Trinity having intercourse, orgasm and all. The sad thing is, none of this adds anything to the movie, which would have probably been "PG-13" had they simply edited out this 5-6 minute orgy. I don't know what is more shocking or disappointing: This scene being included in what was otherwise an excellent movie, or the fact that there was a family of a mom, dad, and three boys under the age of 10 in front of us.

OVERALL: Excellent movie, great effects, superb, deep, writing. But somewhat ruined by sexual content. I'd give it 4 out of 5 stars, but proceed with caution.

[Bogey78O]

Yo7 know I just realized that that the "rave" scene kind of reminds me of the 10 commandments after the Hebrew people were freed from bondage. Of course the Hebrews were forced to wander for it.

[Bogey78O]

I noted much the same on other forums about the bridge accident.

However it wasn't Nairobi that was killed. It was another black actress that resembled her. Nairobi was in the final scene on the hovercraft as it was her ship that salvaged Morpheus' crew..

[Sentis]

They never spoke