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Chat room spy irks descendants - woman says she wanted Hemings kin out of Jefferson reunion
Associated Press ^
| May 3, 2003
| Associated Press Staff
Posted on 05/03/2003 7:49:53 AM PDT by MeekOneGOP
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Hmmm? Interesting.
To: MeeknMing
Just off the cuff, one would think that wanting to claim descendence from a slave loving Founder would be embarrassing. Why try to connect to what you hate? Somehow $$$$ maybe?????
To: MeeknMing
Hemmings was probably impregnated by Thomas Jefferson's relative, who by all accounts, was fascinated with all things African. Hemmings herself was the half sister of Jefferson's first wife.
Lucian Truscott IV is a flaming jerk, and not as good a writer as his dad. On the other hand, his less well known brother, James Truscott, is a gentleman. Ah well, it happens in the best of families.
Lucian Truscott III, the commander of the Third Infantry division in Sicily and commander of the 3rd Army after Patton's relief, was also a gentleman. His "Command Missions" is the best read of all the general's memoirs of the second world war.
3
posted on
05/03/2003 8:11:40 AM PDT
by
donmeaker
(Time is Relative, at least in my family.)
To: MeeknMing
Perhaps we could loan them an Admin Moderator for some ZOT! action.
To: Ohioan
William,
Have a look at this.
J
To: MeeknMing
This is series.
6
posted on
05/03/2003 8:40:29 AM PDT
by
E. Pluribus Unum
(Drug prohibition laws help support terrorism.)
To: Tijeras_Slim
LOL ! :O)
7
posted on
05/03/2003 9:15:34 AM PDT
by
MeekOneGOP
(Bu-bye Dixie Chimps! / Check out my Freeper site !: http://home.attbi.com/~freeper/wsb/index.html)
To: E. Pluribus Unum
8
posted on
05/03/2003 9:17:50 AM PDT
by
MeekOneGOP
(Bu-bye Dixie Chimps! / Check out my Freeper site !: http://home.attbi.com/~freeper/wsb/index.html)
To: J. L. Chamberlain
Thank you for the heads up. My own previous correspondence with the bad apple of the Truscott clan, over these antics, is on the web at
Correspondence on Media Smear Of Thomas Jefferson.
To put this whole silly business into perspective, take out the racial aspect for a moment, and imagine that descendants of an inn keeper's daughter impregnated by Richard The Lion Hearted, or some other English hero, sought admission to a family gathering at Buckingham Palace. The only reason that this Truscott/Hemings play gets any attention or mileage is precisely because the Left has got rooted Americans in an apologetic mode over just about everything today. Will it stop this side of total chaos? I am beginning to wonder. Common sense is virtually dead!
William Flax Return Of The Gods Web Site
9
posted on
05/03/2003 9:31:41 AM PDT
by
Ohioan
To: donmeaker
I think it's interesting that the Hemmings that have been the most vocal about being Jefferson descendents were proven not to be descendents.
And the ones who never had too much to do with that claim are the ones that the DNA proved to be fathered by SOME Jefferson male.
Personally, I think it probably was Jefferson in at least one case.
I can't remember which one, but there is a granddaughter that looks just like him, on the Hemmings side.
10
posted on
05/03/2003 9:36:16 AM PDT
by
Jael
(The WE? It's "WE the people". You know, of "In order to form a more perfect union" fame)
To: donmeaker
Jefferson's nephews were not the fathers of Hemmings children that is easily shown to be false. That was a claim concocted years after J's death by his daughter and others attempting to deflect criticism of her father by those pointing to Sally. They tried to claim Jefferson was the children's father as the evidence clearly shows.
As you said Sally was Martha's half sister. She was 1/8 black. Jefferson had promised Martha on her deathbed never to remarry. Sally and his affair was not one of explotation of a slave by a master but was a long-lived loving affair of 30 yrs. I am not a Jefferson fan by any means but do not point to this as one of his major faults. Sally was intelligent, discrete, spoke French and probably looked a great deal like his wife.
Her children and relatives were highly favored by J. and were the only slaves freed by Jefferson or his estate. One of her sons was taught to play the violin (which J also played) and the only reason she was not freed was that at the time of his death freed slaves HAD to leave Virginia. Since her relatives were there she did not want to leave MOnticello.
11
posted on
05/03/2003 10:45:48 AM PDT
by
justshutupandtakeit
(RATS will use any means to denigrate George Bush's Victory.)
To: Ohioan
Whatever. Jefferson was the father of Sally's children.
12
posted on
05/03/2003 10:46:50 AM PDT
by
justshutupandtakeit
(RATS will use any means to denigrate George Bush's Victory.)
To: Jael
All of her children were Jefferson's and all looked a great deal like him. The daughter was allowed to "run away" to Pennsylvania. All looked virtually white since their mother was only 1/8 black.
13
posted on
05/03/2003 10:49:25 AM PDT
by
justshutupandtakeit
(RATS will use any means to denigrate George Bush's Victory.)
To: justshutupandtakeit
No, the oldest ones were not Jeffersons, DNS says. I think the youngest four were proven to have some male Jefferson DNA. They look like him. The older ones do not. I think that Sally Hemmings was more than 1/8 black, but was by all accounts a very lovely woman.
14
posted on
05/03/2003 10:51:26 AM PDT
by
Jael
(The WE? It's "WE the people". You know, of "In order to form a more perfect union" fame)
To: MeeknMing
David Works, who claims to be a sixth-generation grandson of the union of Jefferson and Hemings, said he has asked federal authorities to investigate the matter. Calling in the Feds? Was the Viking Kitties' line busy?
To: justshutupandtakeit
The evidence that Jefferson had anything to do with the conception of any of Sally Hemings' children is highly suspect. (See
Civil War, Reconstruction & Creating Hate In America Today.)
As kin of his wife, and a trusted house servant of his daughter, Jefferson would naturally have wanted to see Sally Hemings and her children treated well. That is no evidence of paternity. The one (not seven) shown to have a possible DNA connection to Jefferson's father, may well indicate an involvement with a male Jefferson, but the probability is that such male Jefferson was not Thomas.
William Flax
16
posted on
05/03/2003 11:12:17 AM PDT
by
Ohioan
To: stands2reason
17
posted on
05/03/2003 12:56:04 PM PDT
by
MeekOneGOP
(Bu-bye Dixie Chimps! / Check out my Freeper site !: http://home.attbi.com/~freeper/wsb/index.html)
To: Ohioan
DNA is not the evidence of proof that is significant. And I agree the story a few years ago that "proved" paternity was ludicrous as science or evidence. No serious researcher believes that testing another Jefferson's DNA is proof of Jefferson's paternity. The proof lies in the fact that Sally ONLY conceived within the time periods when Jefferson was at MOnticello (or France) and that all her children were freed when no other house servants were. Actually no slaves were freed who were not connected to the Hemings family.
Then there was the visual evidence of resemblence of the children to Jefferson marked by many contemporaries including red hair. And the highly favored treatment of the family.
The fact that one of her sons was taught to play the violin at Monticello (and allowed to have one to play) is to me the sort of little detail which (while irrelevent in court perhaps) rings too true for this story to be false.
I love the fact that his favored character assassin turned against him and spread the story. It may have been the only time he was telling the truth.
18
posted on
05/03/2003 6:27:16 PM PDT
by
justshutupandtakeit
(RATS will use any means to denigrate George Bush's Victory.)
To: Jael
She, her mother and grandmother all had white fathers.
The family legend was that she was pregnant when she returned from France. There may be problems with that but I have seen no real proof she wasn't.
The most significant proof to me is the highly unusual treatment given all her descendents and family. NO other slaves were freed from that estate.
Pro-Jefferson historians began to cover up the story by the mid-1800s but none of their reasoning or proof stand up to analysis.
I think Sally had other features than her beauty which appealed to J. not the least of which was her ability to speak French. J. virtually worshipped anything French.
19
posted on
05/03/2003 7:10:36 PM PDT
by
justshutupandtakeit
(RATS will use any means to denigrate George Bush's Victory.)
Hemings kin attend Monticello event
But slave's descendants were only invited guests
BY CALVIN R. TRICE
TIMES-DISPATCH STAFF WRITER May 04, 2003
CHARLOTTESVILLE - About 20 descendants of slave Sally Hemings milled about the historic estate of her owner, Thomas Jefferson, as the annual reunion of his family got under way yesterday.
Unlike last year, the Hemings descendants arrived at Monticello only as invited guests - not as potential members of the Monticello Association, the private club of Jefferson's descendants.
About 80 people in all drank spirits and ate hor d'oeurves at the reception, which opens the association's annual meetings.
DNA tests have linked Thomas Jefferson's family to at least one of Sally Hemings' children. Still, the association voted overwhelmingly last year to keep the Hemingses out of the Jefferson club.
In the wake of that perceived snub, Hemings descendant Michele Cooley considered her family's presence a victory.
"We have developed a foundation that is unifying for Monticello members, the Hemings family and the Woodsons," said Cooley, of Baltimore.
Cooley and her sister, Lisa Cooley, had to wait 30 minutes after the start of the reception at 6 p.m. because their sponsor in the association had not arrived.
Lisa Cooley linked their presence to the cause of the civil-rights movement for which their grandfather, Petersburg lawyer Robert H. Cooley Jr., had fought.
"It's about the ability to walk in through the front door," Lisa Cooley said.
Rules of sponsorship have been the center of heated exchanges among Monticello members during the weeks leading up to this weekend's gathering. That discussion led to a roil over an Internet impersonation that will probably result in an attempt to oust Nathaniel Abeles as association president.
Last year, Lucian Truscott IV, an association member from Los Angeles who embraces the Hemings claim, invited 26 Hemings family members to the reunion as guests. Since then, Abeles and the group leadership limited guest invitations to two per member.
In recent weeks, Abeles chided certain Jeffersons over plans to get the Hemings family members to this year's meeting as guests. Abeles had learned of plans to get Hemings invitations for children of Monticello members and adult members who couldn't attend.
John H. Works Jr., a former president of the Monticello Association, called attempts to draw Hemingses to the annual gathering disruptive, especially in light of last year's vote.
"This is not appropriate behavior. They're trying to create issues that really don't exist," Works said. The fact that there were so few Hemingses at the event showed that most Monticello members don't want a deluge of the Hemingses at their private functions, he added.
He and Truscott got into an animated debate in front of the Jefferson mansion over rules and past recriminations during the taping of a television interview.
Guest rules will likely play a prominent role during the association's business meeting today at the downtown Charlottesville Omni.
Abeles learned about invitation plans from discussions on a private Yahoo! Internet chat group for Monticello members and the Hemings family. Last week, the moderator of the group, Jefferson descendant David Works, discovered that a group member claiming to be a Hemings descendant was an impostor. Works traced the impersonation to Abeles' computer.
Abeles claims his wife, Paulie Abeles, had infiltrated the group and monitored discussion for eight months without telling her husband about the ruse. The impostor, using the name Cassandra Mays-Lewis, forwarded e-mail to Nathaniel Abeles, the president claims.
Abeles said his wife confessed to the impersonation after Works confronted the president about the trace. Abeles said he forced his wife to resign from the chat group Thursday. He issued Works a letter of apology to the chat-group members Friday.
Works and Truscott, both association members and Hemings sympathizers, dismiss Abeles' explanation. They believe he lied about his own impersonation and should be removed as president.
Works will present to the membership a series of e-mails issued to chat-group members over a three-hour overnight span from Abeles' computer. Some used the president's name. Others used the fake "Cassandra Lewis" identity, Truscott said.
Another point of contention has been the family's traditional visit to their ancestral gravesite, where only Jefferson descendants can be buried. Abeles has barred non-Monticello members from participating in today's visit on the property near the Jefferson mansion. His opponents vowed to disregard that rule.
The Hemings issue has been ongoing for five years. In 1998, DNA tests lent credence to a long-held suspicion that Jefferson fathered some of Hemings' children. The tests showed that a Jefferson male fathered Hemings' youngest son, Eston.
The results did not conclude that Jefferson himself was the father, but included him among about 24 Jefferson men who lived in Virginia at the time who could have fathered Eston Hemings.
Contact Calvin R. Trice at (540) 574-9977 or
ctrice@timesdispatch.com http://www.timesdispatch.com/news/MGBJHAQDAFD.html
20
posted on
05/04/2003 1:43:26 PM PDT
by
Ligeia
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