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A man who hunted deer on his own property will spend 15 years in federal prison
AP via Boston Glob ^ | 4/30/03 | staff

Posted on 04/30/2003 5:45:41 AM PDT by CFW

Edited on 04/13/2004 2:09:42 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

PITTSBURGH (AP) A man who hunted deer on his own property will spend 15 years in federal prison because he was a convicted felon, and therefore not allowed to possess a gun.

Jack C. Altsman, 43, of Beaver Falls, received the mandatory sentence Friday from U.S. District Judge Terrence McVerry.


(Excerpt) Read more at boston.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Front Page News
KEYWORDS: banglist; guncontrol
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To: Chancellor Palpatine
So what? He's a convicted felon.

In the society of the future EVERYONE will be a convicted felon, including you.

I very curious about the details here. He is 43 and has two burglary convictions.

When did these burglaries occur and under what circumstances?

The story conveniently omits all details that would establish context- does he have a job? A family? What other encounter has he had with the law?

If the answer to these questions suggest a positive change of life then it is a mistake to allow a Prosecutor to intimidate you into a plea bargain.

An established possibility would be the jury would nullify both the charges and the law.

Of course, conservative lawyers on the level of competence of the ACLU are virtually non-existent so such an outcome is still only a possibility.

Best regards,

21 posted on 04/30/2003 6:05:35 AM PDT by Copernicus (A Constitutional Republic revolves around Sovereign Citizens, not citizens around government.)
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To: sparkomatic
Where is it written that an ex-convict loses his constitutional rights?

In many places. Those rights innure to us as long as we follow a set of civil codes, called laws. Break them, and you lose rights reserved for the lawful.

22 posted on 04/30/2003 6:06:07 AM PDT by MindBender26 (For more news as it happens, stay tuned to your local FReeper station.........)
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To: Moonmad27
I agree, the headline is misleading. When I first saw the headline, my blood started to boil. I thought a law-abiding citizen was imprisoned for hunting deer on his own property. Then I read the article and find out deer hunting has nothing to do with it. It would be as if the following headline was applied to the Scott Peterson case: MAN WHO WAS ON FISHING TRIP ARRESTED FOR MURDER.

Not that I don't think it's ridiculous putting a man behind bars for 15 years for carrying a gun on his own property - felon or no felon.

23 posted on 04/30/2003 6:06:20 AM PDT by SamAdams76 (California wine beats French wine in blind taste tests. Boycott French wine.)
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To: MindBender26
Where is it written? Is it in the constitution?
24 posted on 04/30/2003 6:08:08 AM PDT by sparkomatic (I wish I were gullible; then I'd be like everyone else)
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To: guitfiddlist
Mandatory sentences are needed so bleeding-heart judges don't go soft on the criminal element. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.
25 posted on 04/30/2003 6:08:46 AM PDT by Wolfie
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To: Moonmad27
True, he should answer to the law for breaking the rules after two prior convictions of burglary. Maybe up to a couple years in prison. 15 years is ridiculous.
26 posted on 04/30/2003 6:10:04 AM PDT by DeuceTraveler
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To: CFW
Let's see......$23,000 per year for 15 years? That's $345,000.

I'd say keeping me safe from this guy has been about the same cost to me directly as the thieves who stole my 401K money. Would the New York cops start arresting anyone from Wallstreet who goes hunting?

27 posted on 04/30/2003 6:10:24 AM PDT by blackdog (Peace, love, and understanding.....$10 bucks a hit in America.)
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To: sparkomatic
Where is it written that an ex-convict loses his constitutional rights?

Right where it says that he can't vote, either. Also, more generally, the emphasis on "in his own property" is a faulty argument. If the government can regulate what two consenting adults can do in their bedroom, then surely the government can regulate what an adult can shoot at in his backyard, right?

28 posted on 04/30/2003 6:11:07 AM PDT by modern_orthodox
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To: CFW
You can become a felon for watching cable TV channels the CTV company gives you but you don't pay for (as in: you pay for "basic" service, they forget to put on a line filter, and you discover you're getting "standard" service when you turn on the TV).

Half the problem is that only one item on the Bill Of Rights is lost by felons (why not the others?).

The other half is that it's so stupidly easy to become a felon for truly petty, even accidental, "crimes".
29 posted on 04/30/2003 6:11:16 AM PDT by ctdonath2
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To: Chancellor Palpatine
Yup, he's just the kind of guy who needs to possess firearms.

Yup, he's just the kind of guy who needs to have free speech.

Yup, he's just the kind of guy who needs to have freedom of worship, etc, etc.

He either paid his debt to society or he didn't. If he did, then he should have all the rights of a free man. If not, he should still be in jail.

30 posted on 04/30/2003 6:12:36 AM PDT by Eagle Eye (There ought to be a law against excessive legislation.)
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To: sparkomatic
Felons can't vote, either.
31 posted on 04/30/2003 6:12:59 AM PDT by Gefreiter
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To: Gefreiter
I'm not a felon. I own guns and I vote. But I pondered this question recently when I purchased a Rossi Matched Pair for my son's birthday. When I answered the questions on the FBI paperwork I wondered, "Why should it matter if I have been convicted? Isn't it a constitutional right to keep and bear arms?"
32 posted on 04/30/2003 6:16:53 AM PDT by sparkomatic (I wish I were gullible; then I'd be like everyone else)
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To: modern_orthodox
Right where it says that he can't vote, either.

The "right to vote" is not part of the Bill Of Rights.

There is a difference between limited organizational rights (like voting) and unalienable natural rights (like posessing arms). The former is limited to people of certain age, citizenship, location, and procedures - and until the Constitution was amended, even limited to sex. The latter is defined as an unalienable natural right, recognized with the explicit phrase "...shall not be infringed" - the only limit is where exercising the right violates someone else's rights.

The "felons lose the right to vote too" argument is a falacy.

33 posted on 04/30/2003 6:17:15 AM PDT by ctdonath2
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To: Copernicus
"In the society of the future EVERYONE will be a convicted felon, including you."

Why others don't see this just amazes me.

34 posted on 04/30/2003 6:17:40 AM PDT by bluecollarman
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To: Gefreiter
Voting is not part of the Bill Of Rights. Big difference.
35 posted on 04/30/2003 6:18:10 AM PDT by ctdonath2
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To: CFW
Well, that's some sort of justice, I suppose.

Just not the kind one associates with a free country.
36 posted on 04/30/2003 6:18:34 AM PDT by headsonpikes
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To: Eagle Eye
He either paid his debt to society or he didn't. If he did, then he should have all the rights of a free man. If not, he should still be in jail.

In the past the idea was you did a crime, paid for it, and were given another chance. If you are convicted today, you lose your right to defend yourself (or hunt) forever.

To me, it's just another little angle in the campaign to disarm all of us... One by one.

37 posted on 04/30/2003 6:18:41 AM PDT by GhostofWCooper
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To: jjm2111; Rifleman
What crap.

"Rifleman"s comments in post #18 sum it up quite succinctly.


38 posted on 04/30/2003 6:20:00 AM PDT by Joe Brower (http://www.joebrower.com/)
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To: sparkomatic
Where is it written that an ex-convict loses his constitutional rights?

Right here:

Amendment V

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

He received due process. Therefore, it is Constitutional to forbid him from owning a gun, and to jail him if he takes possession of one.

And this guy should have known this. Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

OTOH, I could see the Executive authority of this state giving this guy a pardon at some point. While what he did was stupid and against the law, the act he was engaged in was otherwise lawful (I'm presuming here that he wasn't in violation of any other laws) and he hurt no one but himself.

39 posted on 04/30/2003 6:20:44 AM PDT by RonF
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To: jjm2111
This guy's lawyer was an idiot.

How so? For pleading guilty instead of going to trial? Was it the lawyers advice or did he just decide for himself to plead guilty, and what would have been the likely sentance for a conviction if the 15 years was already legislated as being mandatory anyway?

40 posted on 04/30/2003 6:21:24 AM PDT by templar
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