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A man who hunted deer on his own property will spend 15 years in federal prison
AP via Boston Glob ^ | 4/30/03 | staff

Posted on 04/30/2003 5:45:41 AM PDT by CFW

Edited on 04/13/2004 2:09:42 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

PITTSBURGH (AP) A man who hunted deer on his own property will spend 15 years in federal prison because he was a convicted felon, and therefore not allowed to possess a gun.

Jack C. Altsman, 43, of Beaver Falls, received the mandatory sentence Friday from U.S. District Judge Terrence McVerry.


(Excerpt) Read more at boston.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Front Page News
KEYWORDS: banglist; guncontrol
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Comment #281 Removed by Moderator

To: jmc813
Locking this guy up on the public dime for 15 years isn't "throwing money at it"?

Oh, yeah, you're right.

Let's just open the prisons and let them all out. Oh--and give them firearms.

</ sarcasm>

282 posted on 04/30/2003 6:10:02 PM PDT by Catspaw
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To: Hodar
No sir, you are wrong. Antique firearms are exempted under Title 18. HERE is the link.

Cabela's would be happy to sell you as many as you want with no paperwork.

283 posted on 04/30/2003 6:24:17 PM PDT by A Marine
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To: A Marine
Hmmmm this is interesting .... paragraphs A and D are mutually exclusive ... You are correct, black powder weapons can be sold to felons. It doesn't make any sense; but there is (you win) :


(3)

The term ''firearm'' means

(A)

any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive;

(B)

the frame or receiver of any such weapon;

(C)

any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or

(D)

any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm.

284 posted on 04/30/2003 6:31:10 PM PDT by Hodar (With Rights, comes Responsibilities. Don't assume one, without assuming the other.)
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To: Teacher317
He is being punished for something that you cowards fear he might do.

Exactly. He is a felon (a double loser as he has 2 convictions), thus gets to enjoy the bounty of his foolish decisions. Part of his penalty is that he can never vote, or own a gun. He KNEW that after his FIRST conviction. It's clearly explained to him, and it's no big state secret.

You are looking, eagerly, to punish someone you think is a lesser citizen than yourself.

Do I think I'm superior to a convicted felon? Hell yeah. In every single category you can think of. I'm smarter, honorable, trustworthy, and have demonstrated that I can be trusted to act responsibly. Every single thing I own, I bought with money I earned. I grew up poor, and worked full time to put my way through college. Compared to this piece of human refuse, I'm freakin' superman.

You're just as much of a thug as you think he is, but you use your "moral superiority" to use the power of the state, whereas all he ever hurt was a lock on a door (burglary is forcible entry to commit larceny inside... no violence necessary).

Boo-freakin-hoo. I have had my home invaded by a degenerate like this creep. A person who felt that everything I owned was his to take. Now, some idiot like you propose that these degenerates are just as worthy as everyone else to possess a firearm.

His infirm wife is terrified and bed-ridden, and you can't move out of the subsidized housing you live in because there are no other homes available. Oh, bring me a Kleenix, you are killing me.... we all make decisions in life. Some of us chose to work to get ahead, others chose to steal from the people who work. You would mirthfully stand by and applaud his murder (after watching his wife get raped and bludgeoned, of course), all because he made a mistake, paid his debt to society, and you want to look down your nose at him. Truly, you're a prince among men.

Again, boo-freakin-hoo. Let's contrast this with the number of innocents who are killed/robbed every year by thugs who have been convicted not once, not twice but three times. The odds are that he's more likely to be the cause of violence, than the recepient of it.

15 years easily violates the 8th Amendment since a third burglary or even a physical assault on another would carry far lesser sentences than he got for injuring no one!)

Stupidity should be painful. This is called escalated punishment. The first conviction should have sent a message to this degenerate. But, this specimen of humanity was a little slower than the average idiot. So, his second offense usually carries with it a longer sentence (for those who are too mentally inept to understand what they did was wrong). He was put on notice, and he stupidly thought otherwise. I have absolutely no pity for the criminal element. Maybe because I've experienced what they can do to people's lives. But bleeding hearts will always seek to blame someone else for the criminals poor decisions. You are blaming me, for wanting to punish a person who has been through the system AT LEAST twice. Perhaps some day you will be unfortunate to be in the wrong place, at the wrong time and expience first hand the utter disregard this element has for your property, your life, your possessions, and everything you hold dear. Then, I think you will change your tune.

285 posted on 04/30/2003 6:54:27 PM PDT by Hodar (With Rights, comes Responsibilities. Don't assume one, without assuming the other.)
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To: A. Pole
"Hehe. Do you want to bet? I am sure there are people in you state from FR you would love to find some dirt to win a lucrative bet."

What bet? They'd be welcome to try, but they really wouldn't find anything. My life is quite boring, legally speaking.
286 posted on 04/30/2003 7:24:11 PM PDT by MineralMan
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To: Teacher317
"Currently, the statutes in Indiana for Attempt has an improperly phrased mental element, and you can easily be prosecuted for a felony violation for mere misdemeanor acts. For example, if you get behind the wheel after having a few drinks and swerve around, you can be convicted of attempted reckless homocide, a felony (rather than the typical reckless driving misdemeanor), even if you drive two blocks on an empty road, then get out and call a cab.

Assume you're a gas station attendant. Sell gasoline to someone who goes on to rob a bank, and you're guilty of aiding him. You are now subject to the same penalties as he is if he mentioned the robbery and you failed to stop it. (Trying to stop it is not enough... you must succeed in Indiana.)

Assume you're getting a tow, and the driver asks to be paid in cash. If you do, you can be liable for his tax evasion, because you should have known that the request was meant to help him avoid paying business taxes. You're guilty of conspiracy, as well as the tax evasion. "

If you have a few drinks and drive, you should be arrested, in any case. Sorry, but I don't hold for drunk driving, under any circumstances. I lost someone close to me to a drunk driver, and have no sympathy whatever.

As for your gas sale example, you are incorrect. Unless you knew that the person was going to rob a bank, you cannot be held in any way culpable.

Finally, I never pay for things like towing in cash. I need the receipts for my records. Never.

Try again.
287 posted on 04/30/2003 7:28:11 PM PDT by MineralMan
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To: FSPress
"Do you carry a firearm concealed?
"

I don't. I have a firearm at my place of business where it is accessible, and I keep a Mossberg 500 12 ga. shotgun at home for defensive purposes. All of my other firearms are stored in locked gun safes. Both the shotgun and my Colt .45 at work are stored safely in locked cabinets at any time when I am not in the immediate vicinity of them.
288 posted on 04/30/2003 7:30:28 PM PDT by MineralMan
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To: MineralMan
What bet? They'd be welcome to try, but they really wouldn't find anything. My life is quite boring, legally speaking.

You live in California, right? Are you sure you never stepped on spotted owl or some spotted bug? Or did you cause some pollution or did you make any hate crime remark?

289 posted on 04/30/2003 7:38:28 PM PDT by A. Pole
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To: MineralMan
If you have a few drinks and drive, you should be arrested, in any case. Sorry, but I don't hold for drunk driving, under any circumstances. I lost someone close to me to a drunk driver, and have no sympathy whatever.

Once again, it is not the fact of the punishment that is unConstitutional, it is the size of it. Get it?

As for your gas sale example, you are incorrect. Unless you knew that the person was going to rob a bank, you cannot be held in any way culpable.

Did you miss the "if he mentioned the robbery" part?

Finally, I never pay for things like towing in cash. I need the receipts for my records. Never. Try again.

Your egocentrism is remarkable. This is not about you. This is about the hyper-extension of bad laws, the enforcement of 8th-Amendment-violating penalties, and the very clear possibility that even those who do not have a "guilty mind" (sufficient mens rea) still being liable for criminal penalties... especially when they are gun owners. (Have you not noticed the specific targetting of that single culture for hyper-aggressive law enforcement?)

290 posted on 04/30/2003 7:53:23 PM PDT by Teacher317
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To: Hodar
Thanks for confirming your elitism and hatred for others who do not meet your standards for perfection. So much for finiteness in punishment (have you noticed yet that some crimes have harsher penalties than others? Most 3rd graders have that figured out), notions of Equal Protection (all free adult citizens deserve equal treatment... a very simple and Revolutionary notion. I hope that you may understand it someday. You cite it in your profile, anyway.), or even notions of Christian forgiveness (your profile indicates that you would consider yourself a religious, and yet you are a singularly hateful and unforgiving soul... I guess those passages on hypocrisy are also lost on you).
291 posted on 04/30/2003 8:00:40 PM PDT by Teacher317
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To: verity
The Dukes of Hazard used to strap dynamite to their arrows!
292 posted on 04/30/2003 8:04:17 PM PDT by plusone
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To: CFW
This is insane..

Considering that ALL YOU HAVE TO DO TO GET A GUN IS READ THE CLASSIFIEDS AND THEN DIAL THE PHONE, if you can't trust someone with their Constitutional right to K&BA because of a felony conviction, then the reality is that you can't trust them in society period.

As guns are only as far away as the closest "Tradin Post" classified ad's or similar.

To act like we are all somehow safer as a result of this is simply laughable.

293 posted on 04/30/2003 8:08:50 PM PDT by Jhoffa_ (Sammy to Frodo: "Get out. Go sleep with one of your whores!")
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To: Hodar
Perhaps some day you will be unfortunate to be in the wrong place, at the wrong time and expience first hand the utter disregard this element has for your property, your life, your possessions, and everything you hold dear. Then, I think you will change your tune.

Been there, done that. Home break-in, stolen car stereos, and an ATM robbery... one's emotional state should not influence Constitutional analysis. Apparently you still are "boo-frickin-hoo-ing" over your losses, and figure that the Constitution takes a back seat to your whiny fears.

Oh, and by the way, since you are more likely to commit a crime than my wheelchair-bound grandmother, you won't mind a few charges coming your way for the future potential crimes that you have yet to commit. We're all sure you'll understand.

Oh? What's that? It shouldn't apply to you, oh elitist one? You didn't foresee that letting unConstitutional applications stand unopposed would encourage further instances? You were too stupid to realize that if it happens to someone else, it can happen to you? Hm! Who could've predicted that!

294 posted on 04/30/2003 8:10:17 PM PDT by Teacher317
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To: RonF
"He received due process. Therefore, it is Constitutional to forbid him from owning a gun"

Rubbish !!

The consstitution specifically forbids the enactment of all gun laws. No Exceptions. - Due process requires the nullification of all gun statutes. Anything less is short of Due process.

295 posted on 04/30/2003 8:18:08 PM PDT by editor-surveyor ( . Best policy RE: Environmentalists, - ZERO TOLERANCE !!)
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To: CFW
President Bush can use his power to pardon anytime he wants. He does not have to wait until the last few hours of his Presidency. Let's get a letter writing campaign together to write to the President to get him to put right this travesty of justice.
296 posted on 04/30/2003 8:22:25 PM PDT by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty" not the "Statue of Security.")
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To: FreedomCalls
bump
297 posted on 05/01/2003 6:09:21 AM PDT by CFW
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To: Teacher317
Another evil burglary convict who broke terms of his probation for you to despise.

You have said over and over that prohibiting felons from owning guns is uncounstitutional. Over, and over and over. Yet, have offered nothing to back that up. I have shown Federal laws explaining and detailing what is included. Just because you can repeat something, does not make it true. On what grounds is limiting the ability of felons to obtain firearms uncounstitutional?

Do you have a family member that is a felon loser? You seem bent on giving the criminal element weapons, which will likely be used on the non-crimial element. And those who somehow manage to get through life without committing felonies are elitists? Newsflash for you, about 98% of the american population is 'elitist' in that we have somehow managed to make it through life without committing a felony.

And it's true, that I am probably more likely to commit a crime than your wheelchair-bound grandmother; and as soon as I follow through and commit a crime, then have my day in court; I will have earned limitations on my freedom. That's the difference. These losers earned the special restrictions on their freedom, at the cost to innocents and the american taxpayer.

298 posted on 05/01/2003 6:43:55 AM PDT by Hodar (With Rights, comes Responsibilities. Don't assume one, without assuming the other.)
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To: editor-surveyor
Is it your position that the Constitution allows the Federal government to take your liberty or even your life, but it does not allow the government to take any kind of gun away from you?
299 posted on 05/01/2003 7:16:20 AM PDT by RonF
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To: A. Pole
"You live in California, right? Are you sure you never stepped on spotted owl or some spotted bug? Or did you cause some pollution or did you make any hate crime remark?"

Yup, I'm sure.
300 posted on 05/01/2003 7:21:35 AM PDT by MineralMan
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