Trudeau insults Christians in Easter Day Doonesbury cartoon

Doonesbury Cartoon ^ | April 20, 2003 | Gary Trudeau

[Ichneumon]

There is NO evidence of evolution. NONE! Zilcho!

Well, I guess that settles *that* then, doesn't it? NMH hath spoken...

Oh, wait, no it doesn't... So what's your explanation for the enormous amounts of evidence that appears to be strong evidence of evolution? God playing practical jokes on us?

Why, for example, did God put so many shark teeth in the ocean sediments that if sharks *haven't* been around for many millions of years, then either the oceans were once shoulder-to-shoulder packed full of sharks, *or* God planted billions of teeth in the ocean floor that never actually belonged to any living shark?

That God -- what a kidder.

On the other hand, if he planted all that "evidence" to make it *look* like the Earth was immensely old and that evolution had occurred, maybe he wants us to *believe* it for some reason.

[Ichneumon]

It's pathetic ... you are soooo blind. Have you no clue that within the human species there is VARIATION amongst skulls?

Why yes, of course there is. However, the "VARIATION" is never large enough to result in skulls like those found and presented in the photo.

A forensic person is able to tell the race by the shape and other characteristics of the skull

Exactly -- and "forensic persons" are able to look at the fossil skulls and tell that they do *not* belong to any modern-style human (and that no modern-style skull has been found in old deposits).

Thank you for confirming the expertise of those "forensic persons" who identify fossil skulls as pre-human.

and yet you point to this as "proof" of evolution.

Exactly. Those "forensic persons" know their stuff.

[longshadow]

wildly elliptical dots placemarker

[HalfFull]

What a moronic non sequiter. He was referring to a literary figure.

so now you say Noah was not a real person, only a "literary figure". Curious that Jesus didn't make that distinction.

BTW, your insults only show your true heart. So sad.....

[Ichneumon]

I do know for a fact that contrary to the previous poster's claim, MOST Christians do not believe in evolution. Anyone can check out the countless mainstream Christian websites and find they almost all maintian a pro-creation, anti-evolution veiwpoint.

Let me get this straight -- you know for a "fact" that most Christians don't believe in evolution, because that's what most of the Christian *websites* put forth as their own position?

This is, shall we say, less than a representative sample.

An extremely small minority attempt to reconcile evolution with Biblical creation.

Actual polls disagree with you. 39% of the general public responded that they believed in "Theistic evolution". This is a heck of a lot of people "attempting to reconcile evolution with Biblical creation" -- it's hardly an "extremely small minority". Compare that to 44% who said they subscribed to creationism. Looks a lot closer to about 50-50 than "an extremely small minority".

[Junior]

Anyone can check out the countless mainstream Christian websites and find they almost all maintian a pro-creation, anti-evolution veiwpoint.

Vocalness does not equate to truthfullness. Maybe those Christians who accept evolution don't feel the need to trumpet their beliefs to the world. After all, they have nothing to prove ...

[Junior]

Curious that Jesus didn't make that distinction.

No more than Homer making the distinction with Achilles. You haven't made a point. You're simply nipping around the edges of an argument. And, my "insults" were merely pointing out your lack of reasoning abilities.

[eagleman]

So, nmh, are you saying that all of those skulls are human skulls, just with within-species variation?

You and your fellow creationists are so sure that there's *NO* evidence for human-ape transitionals and *NO* evidence for evolution, this should be a very easy question for you to answer.

[HalfFull]

And, my "insults" were merely pointing out your lack of reasoning abilities.

Well gee, golly, whiz...that settles it...

[Junior]

Well gee, golly, whiz...that settles it...

Evidently...

[Jorge]

"I do know for a fact that contrary to the previous poster's claim, MOST Christians do not believe in evolution. Anyone can check out the countless mainstream Christian websites and find they almost all maintian a pro-creation, anti-evolution veiwpoint."

Let me get this straight -- you know for a "fact" that most Christians don't believe in evolution, because that's what most of the Christian *websites* put forth as their own position?

Yes. That is correct.

This is, shall we say, less than a representative sample.

Wrong. Most mainstream Christian ministers, churches and organizations that broadcast on the radio, on TV etc. have online websites.

They are very easy to find...and are listed on most Christian directories. They are almost unanimously pro-creation and anti-evolution.

Now unless you think the most dominant views of Christian can hardly be found on Christian radio, TV and Christian internet sites...then there is no way you can make a credible claim that most mainstream Christians don't believe in Biblical creation, and reject evolution.

"An extremely small minority attempt to reconcile evolution with Biblical creation."

Actual polls disagree with you. 39% of the general public responded that they believed in "Theistic evolution".

Who's talking about the general public? Go back and read my post again. I was refering to mainstream Christians.

[Jorge]

"Anyone can check out the countless mainstream Christian websites and find they almost all maintian a pro-creation, anti-evolution veiwpoint."

Vocalness does not equate to truthfullness. Maybe those Christians who accept evolution don't feel the need to trumpet their beliefs to the world. After all, they have nothing to prove ...

You're kidding right?
How can we know what people believe in if they don't express it?

The fact is that anyone familiar with well known mainstream Christian ministers and teachers, Christian radio, TV, and the Christian church in general knows that there is only a fringe element that believes in evolution, or tries to reconcile it with the Bible.

The pro-evolution Christians are about as mainstream as gay-Christian churches. They are way out there.

[eagleman]

PatrickHenry writes,

The photos are garbage, they prove nothing at all. You can see people with numerous different head shapes today, they are all human nevertheless. To show that one evolved from another you would have to date with certainty each and every one of those skulls. Most of them cannot be dated.

Pure unsubstantiated bunk!!! Do you think you can just make up whatever the heck you want, without the slightest documentation, and not get caught doing it?

Here is a plot of fossil skull dates vs. fossil skull cranial capacities. Read it and weep.

Here is the source article, Falk et al. I'm sure that if you follow the references in the caption, the dating of every single skull in in the graph can be traced to peer-reviewed publications.

So far the creationists have offered up *nothing* in support of their views in this thread except for (1) unreferenced, unsubstantiated, and often disproved assertions and (2) insults about the character and religion of the evolutionists.

While their science sucks, you have to admit that they are doing a pretty good imitation of the Iraqi Information Minister.

[eagleman]

Ooops, I meant to say "gore3000" instead of "PatrickHenry" in the beginning of the previous message.

(I responded to a message by gore3000 who was responding to PatrickHenry)

[PatrickHenry]

Ooops, I meant to say "gore3000" instead of "PatrickHenry" in the beginning of the previous message.

I somehow figured that out, even before I scrolled down to find your correction. Not a problem.

[Junior]

The Catholic Church represents a surprisingly large chunk of the world's Christians, and it is not "pro-creation, anti-evolution."

Vocal minorities may give the impression they are in the majority, but it is simply an impression. From radio advertising, you could be made to believe that most businesses are car dealerships.

Maybe there are folks out there who don't care whether you know what they believe or not (not everyone likes to advertise his or her life -- hence the use of pseudonyms on discussion forums such as FreeRepublic).

[HalfFull]

Do you think you can just make up whatever the heck you want, without the slightest documentation, and not get caught doing it?

Sure they can...and they have. Just a few example of getting caught include The Nebraska Man, The Java Ape-Man, The Heidelberg Jaw, and the Piltdown Man.

the dating of every single skull in in the graph can be traced to peer-reviewed publications

Peer review from others in the evolution religion...how convincing.

[HalfFull]

The Catholic Church represents a surprisingly large chunk of the world's Christians

that statement in itself is highly debatable....but not the subject of this thread.

[Junior]

From The Papacy: The Ministry of St. Peter in the New Testament (2 of 6)

• How many Catholics are in the world? (1 billion 30 million approx.)

• What fraction of the world's population is this? (1 of 6)

There are approximately 21,000 Christian denominations in the world, along with hundreds, if not thousands of other religions.  Methinks one could safely make the claim that Catholicism represents a goodly portion of the world's Christian population.  And, since the Catholic Church accepts the validity of evolution (as has been pointed out many times), and since there are numerous non-Catholic Christians that accept the validity of evolution, it could also safely be claimed that those Christians that deny the validity of evolution would be in the minority.

[nmh]

You: So, nmh, are you saying that all of those skulls are human skulls, just with within-species variation?

What I am saying is that there is variation in human skulls. Surely you've read something about froensic science. For example there is a difference in skull shape between a Jew, Asian or Caucasian. And yes there is a difference between and animal and a human skull. God only knows what you posted.

You: You and your fellow creationists are so sure that there's *NO* evidence for human-ape transitionals and *NO* evidence for evolution, this should be a very easy question for you to answer.

There is NO evidence. This is what eternally irritaes fellow atheists like yourself. It is you who should be asking that question. Since there is NO evidence for evolution, why do you insist on believing in it? Surely even an atheist is allowed to have common sense.