Hail of Gunfire and Grenades Forces Apaches to Pull Back

nytimes.com ^ | March 24, 2003 | JIM DWYER

[Destro]

Hail of Gunfire and Grenades Forces Apaches to Pull Back

By JIM DWYER

IN CENTRAL IRAQ, March 24 - With a hail of small arms fire and rocket-propelled grenades, Iraqi forces downed two Apache helicopters today and forced 30 other helicopters in their brigade back to their base.

One two-member crew was unaccounted for; the other was rescued. Iraqi state television broadcast images of one downed helicopter, which appeared largely intact, and jubilant men dancing around it.

All 32 helicopters sustained some damage, occasionally slight, Army officials said, in what was a significant setback for the allies.

Fighting continued today in Nasiriya, meanwhile, after the death of 10 marines there on Sunday in the deadliest battle of the war so far.

The attack on the helicopters today surprised American Army leaders and may cause them to rethink their military strategy, which relied on the Apaches to destroy Iraq's armored divisions that ring Baghdad.

The commander of the American-led invasion of Iraq confirmed the loss of one Apache helicopter.

``The fate of the crew is uncertain right now,'' Gen. Tommy R. Franks said at a news briefing at Central Command in Qatar. We characterize that crew, two men, as missing in action.''

General Franks denied that the helicopter had been shot down by farmers, as Iraq claimed, but did not say what had forced it out of the air.

A CNN correspondent accompanying the United States Army Fifth Corps 11th Attack Helicopter Regiment, said the unit had been on a night-time combat mission targeting units of the elite Republican Guard.

The correspondent cited one of the pilots as saying they had run into a ``hornet's nest, a barrage of antiaircraft fire,'' near the city of Kerbala, 70 miles southwest of Baghdad, the closest fighting to the Iraqi capital since the war began last Thursday.

The Iraqi Information Minister, Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf, said at a news conference: ``Farmers shot down two Apaches. We showed one today and might show the second and the pilots.''

``We are holding several other American and British prisoners and we may show some of them,'' the minister said.

The Apaches use a powerful radar, called the Longbow, that directs their Hellfire missiles.

But the Apaches are suddenly coming under attack from relatively low-technology weaponry.

Saddam Hussein ``is fighting an asymmetrical warfare,'' said Brig. Gen. Benjamin Freakly, assistant commander of the 101st Division. ``This is not tank on tank fighting.''

The attack took place near the village of Abu Mustafe, north of Al Hillah, and capped a punishing 24 hours for the allied offensive.

General Freakly said that in an attack like the one on the helicopters, ``you have 10 guys lying on top of a building firing R.P.G.'s and small arms. You can go in and bomb that building and reduce it to rubble,'' but at the potential cost of many civilian lives.

The Army now may consider new tactics, such as additional close aerial bombardment, to support the Apaches as they hunt for armored divisions.

The Apaches were from the 11th Aviation Regiment, based in Germany, and are attached to the V Corps.

Sandstorms are roiling the area, blowing at 25 knots, and are likely to rise to 40 knots on Tuesday and Wednesday. At 30 knots, a meteorologist said, visibility becomes practically nil.

General Franks also said today that the tenacity of some Iraqi units, including the fedayeen, was no surprise and that American-led forces had had some ``terrific firefights.''

The Republican Guard has been hit, he said, and ``they will continue to be hit, at points and places and times that make sense to us. The effect has been very positive for us.''

[dirtboy]

They'll be congratulating themselves about driving off helicopters ... until the A-10s show up and give them a primer on depleted uranium 30mm ammunition. We can deliver whatever level of force is needed to destroy whatever level of resistence is encountered, and IMO once the Iraqis realize this they will be less prone to directly confront the troops.

[Blood of Tyrants]

Carpet bomb the area.

[Hugin]

What happens when you send a helecopter to do a jet's job. Next time call in the Warthogs and Hornets.

[D-fendr]

The media seems to be giving assymetrical coverage: US losses only.

How many Iraqi tanks were hit?

[RightOnline]

"General Freakly said that in an attack like the one on the helicopters, ``you have 10 guys lying on top of a building firing R.P.G.'s and small arms. You can go in and bomb that building and reduce it to rubble,'' but at the potential cost of many civilian lives."

If the other side doesn't give a s**t, then why should we? I'm being perfectly serious. I'm not willing to see any more of our boys sacrificed in exchange for supposedly fewer "civilian casualties". Frankly, any civilians hanging around are just stupid. You shoot, you die........and if that means taking out a building, c'est la guerre.

[steve in DC]

Carpet bombing is too indiscriminate.

I believe that the C-130-Spectres might be more appropriate in these situations.

[vbmoneyspender]

reports last night were that 70 to 72 tanks were destroyed by these Apaches. I am pretty sure it was the same mission because it was described as the mission where the one Apache had to make a forced landing.

[over3Owithabrain]

I'm getting sick of hearing that pansy crap from our leaders. It's killing our men in uniform. It's bad enough that is our strategy, but to brag about it worldwide every day just makes it worse, since it telegraphs to the enemy what to do to fight us.
Yeah, let's not use our most proficient weapons of war, le's get oor guys shot up to appease world opinion who will hate what we're doing there no matter what.
If this is going to be our MO, I would have preffered giving in diplomatically rather than militarily.
Dow is down over 300 now that they see we aren't going to end this soon.

[denydenydeny]

How stupid and credulous can the NYT be? The one Apache shown on Iraqi TV has no apparent battle damage, and looks very much like it made an emergency landing under its own power.

And where is the other "downed" Apache? Why would the Iraqis pass up the other photo op? But the author accepts the Iraqi claim at face value.

And on top of everything, the author implies that the Apaches were simply out sightseeing, and doesn't even speculate what damage they might have done to the RG.

[TheLurkerX]

Exactly. Who gives a flying crap about "civilians" who are by the very nature of being there helping the enemy by providing "don't shoot the innocent" cover.

[Destro]

I am starting to doubt the reports of such kill numbers of tanks. I read where the Iraqis are usuing modified SUVs and Toyota trucks with mounted ordinance--like the so called "technicals" in Somalia. Those might account for the kill count mistaken for tanks. I have not heard of Iraq armor moving out to engage in such numbers yet.

[Diddle E. Squat]

Sheesh, do you totally lose it each time a running back has a 2-yard loss?

Try to keep some perspective, instead of crying "all is lost" on every other thread.

[vbmoneyspender]

I know you are doubting it, but I'm not.

[WatchOutForSnakes]

I just heard a reporter say that a couple of soldiers have complained that they are not being allowed to use the force necessary to take out Iraqi troops because they are firing from residential areas and the top brass won't let them take them out for fear of civilian casualties. This has got to stop. We will be hated whether we kill 1 civilian or 10,000. It makes no difference. I have wondered for a long time whether our politicians have the will to win any more wars. I may be getting my answer. We will win but how many Americans will die because we are restraining them?

[browardchad]

reports last night were that 70 to 72 tanks were destroyed by these Apaches

Franks said that in spite of the downed chopper, the mission was very successful, but this is the NY Times and CNN, who are watching -- no, inventing -- a different war.

[Petronski]

"I am deeply
saddened."

[over3Owithabrain]

Tell our dead servicemens' families about your "two yard loss". Deny all you want that things have headed south in the last 2 days, but the good guys are getting killed because we are sparing civilians. I've never said we won't win this thing, but excuse me for grieveing and being VERY concerned about our young being slaughtered in Iraq for the sake of people who may or may not want us there anyway. Don't be so callous about our dead.

[D-fendr]

If so, then this article's headline qualifies as disinformation.

[over3Owithabrain]

I'd like all these callous puffed-chests around here who so casually dismiss our dead and cheer the good PR of spared civilans in Iraq to try to win a fight while being told to not use full force. Our military is having their hands tied by political concerns. If this was going to be the strategy, we shouldn't have bothered doing this.