Unpatriotic Conservatives

National Review Online ^ | 4/7/03 (advance) | David Frum

[Chancellor Palpatine]

"I respect and admire the French, who have been a far greater nation than we shall ever be, that is, if greatness means anything loftier than money and bombs."
— THOMAS FLEMING, "HARD RIGHT," MARCH 13, 2003

rom the very beginning of the War on Terror, there has been dissent, and as the war has proceeded to Iraq, the dissent has grown more radical and more vociferous. Perhaps that was to be expected. But here is what never could have been: Some of the leading figures in this antiwar movement call themselves "conservatives."

These conservatives are relatively few in number, but their ambitions are large. They aspire to reinvent conservative ideology: to junk the 50-year-old conservative commitment to defend American interests and values throughout the world — the commitment that inspired the founding of this magazine — in favor of a fearful policy of ignoring threats and appeasing enemies.

And they are exerting influence. When Richard Perle appeared on Meet the Press on February 23 of this year, Tim Russert asked him, "Can you assure American viewers . . . that we're in this situation against Saddam Hussein and his removal for American security interests? And what would be the link in terms of Israel?" Perle rebutted the allegation. But what a grand victory for the antiwar conservatives that Russert felt he had to air it.

[Catspaw]

We call that "The Jailhouse Conversion."

I remember one judge who told a defendant who'd Found God between conviction and sentencing that, no, he wasn't going to sentence him to probation so he could follow A Life of Christ, but would sentence him to eight years in prison, where he was sure the inmate would find ample time and opportunity to study the Bible and emulate Jesus.

I almost fell off my chair laughing as the court security officers hauled his sorry, invective-screaming butt off to the hoosegow.

[Terriergal]

that is as it should be!!

[Catspaw]

Oh, I could've embellished it--the guy was doing the "don't cry for me, Argentina" routine while he was begging for probation, but he said some truly non-Christ-like phrases as the guards were yanking him out of the courtroom.

The judge just smiled, then walked back into his chambers. The judge in the case, BTW, is now a Wisconsin Supreme Court judge. I haven't seen him in action on that bench, but I'd bet he gives the attorneys before him a run for their legal briefs.

[billbears]

LOLOL!!! Let me reiterate for those that apparently don't understand. Before the war, yes I felt (as many conservatives) there were Constitutional issues at hand. Now, we are at war and I fully support the troops and wish them a full and quick success. I will not question or second guess the President currently as this nation of states is at war.

As for the Democrats bringing up the issue, hey a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and again. But that little D beside their name apparently shuts your brain and hearing down automatically. There's 'no way a Democrat could ever be right!!' News alert for you there mac, there are some parts of the South where the Democrats are the conservative party. Mind you in this case it was done out of spite, but are they not allowed to question as citizens of their respective states? Does the First Amendment go away when we're at war? Are these representatives not supposed to represent their constituents no matter how unpopular the view may be to some if the majority in their districts agrees with them?

But of course I see it's just another form of name calling, no meat to your argument, but hey what should I have expected?

[Protagoras]

I don't get your point.

[4CJ]

I honor the men of all colors and races that fought for the nation of my ancestors. Of course to deny such men is a travesty but that's what you would have us do. You want white supremacy perhaps you need to read lincoln, Sherman, and Grant. But I take it you would rather have us pledge to a flag of the nation that survived? Again I ask, where is the Pledge of Allegiance outlined in the Constitution or where have you seen documentation of the majority of the Founding Fathers pledging to a symbol instead of the document for which that symbol stands

Bump my friend. We honour all that fought, not hide their memory and their service.

[hchutch]

Look at one of the more coherent of the negative responses to Mr. Frum's article on paleo-cons:

---

“Mr. Frum,

“I have on my desk at work a copy of the very first issue of The National Review. The National Review that you write for today has as much in common with that original edition as a horse has with a horsefly.

“You are not a ‘conservative’ nor are you an ‘American’ as you describe yourself.

“You are a jew. First, last always.

“You have been identified and people are no longer afraid to name the jew and to point out the irrefutable pattern of obfuscation, denial, silence and attacks used in the past to keep Americans from identifying jews as the problem with America. The ability to contain that absolute truth of nature- not rhetoric- has slipped past you while you pontificated about what America is. You wouldn't know, because it was a creation of White men, not jews. A stranger can tell me nothing about my own child and so the jew has nothing to offer me in describing my own nation.

“Jew.

“Enemy of the White Western Man that created our culture and our
civilization. The polio vaccine is not enough to undo the damage caused by the Jew and as a far brighter man than you once observed about you and yours-‘Quickly he turns the attacker's charges back on him, and the attacker becomes the liar, the troublemaker, the terrorist. Same exact enemy. How to respond? Nothing could be more mistaken than to defend oneself. That is just what the Jew wants. He can invent a new lie every day for the enemy to respond to, and the result is that the enemy spends so much time defending himself that he has no time to do what the Jew really fears: to attack.’

“It is time to step up to the plate and men, good men, intelligent and deeply patriotic men are doing just that.

“I served my country in combat and so did my father and his father before him, for our people, not for yours- I don't fear conflict like the Fleishers, Perles, Wolfowitzes, Kissingers, Feiths, Abrams and Frums- I relish it.What unit did you serve in, chickenhawk?

“No one cares about the labels anymore, no one cares about the smears.We want our nation back, and we will have it.It doesn't belong to you and it never has. So call me what you like, for I know what you are- Jew.”

http://www.nationalreview.com/frum/diary032203.asp#005586

---

They're leaving us little choice, IMHO.

[Poohbah]

Don't get too worked up. He's probably a Gruppenfuehrer in the Illinois Nazis, riding around in an orange Pinto station wagon :o)

[hchutch]

Probably lost a relative in the Holocaust, too.

When said relative fell from a guard tower at Buchenwald.

[sheltonmac]

"And the idiotic divided nation idea is dead."

And, thanks to the efforts of ignorant Republican apologists, so is the Constitution.

Welcome to the Union of Luis Gonzalez, Billbears. No state borders, no state sovereignty; everyone takes their marching orders from Washington. True federalism (at least as the founders understood it) is dead. Luis and others like him believe in a strong, centralized government, the likes of which would have made even Alexander Hamilton blush.

[mhking]

He's probably a Gruppenfuehrer in the Illinois Nazis, riding around in an orange Pinto station wagon :o)

"I hate Illinois Nazis..."

[Under the Radar]

I don't get it... what am I missing. Isn't Frum shredding liberals in conservative clothing?

Frum *is* a liberal in conservative clothing...

[mac_truck]

Frum's article sums up what a lot of us have been saying for some time. These bigoted cranks need a pointed reminder that there is no place for them in the party of Lincoln, Reagan and Bush. Surely they deserve to be reunited with their moral and ideological kindred spirits -- the malevolent freaks and traitors on the Left.

A swift kick in the direction of the Republican Party Exit sign is long overdue.

Bump!

[Terriergal]

Well, I'm notn all that familiar with him, and I wouldn't have gotten that impression from this article. (Maybe he's being disingenuous, maybe his eyes have been opened??) That's why I'm having trouble understanding the problem.

[Catspaw]

Evil JOOOOS! It's ALL their fault! If it weren't for the Evil JOOOS I'd....I'd....I'd have to get a real job so I didn't have to ride around in this damn orange Pinto....

[Under the Radar]

Actually, if you can take the time, read through this whole thread. It gets nasty in places, but it does do a good job of showing the paleo-/neo-con split.

[Terriergal]

Well, yeah, I got that impression... but I also wonder half the time if people are violently agreeing and/or arguing across each other.

[billbears]

Bump what? Please explain once you have seen me present a bigoted view of anyone? Yet now I'm lumped with what liberal Frum calls 'bigots'? Of course since you haven't bothered to present a mantra said by the Founding Fathers to symbols (because there isn't one), I know you won't be able to produce anything with me having bigoted views. Yet instead of developing arguments I've been called names and now apparently are expected to leave the Republican Party all at the whim of a liberal turned Republican (note I did not say conservative)

[billbears]

Look at one of the more coherent of the negative responses to Mr. Frum's article on paleo-cons:

LOL!!! Should read look at what Mr. Frum picked out to post as the more coherent responses!! He presents these himself as evidence of fact and you say that 'they' are leaving 'us' no choice?!? I would present the hypothesis to you that Mr. Frum (as any liberal) presents one or two of the more ardent letters that represent his argument instead of the hundreds that disagree with him without using bigoted views

I sent a letter that was coherent and to the point disagreeing with him completely. Yet I don't see it posted. Why? Because it wasn't bigoted or inflamatory. It presented fact instead of feeling. But it wouldn't have supported Mr. Frum's falsehoods.

[hchutch]

Are you saying that the quotes Frum used (which I excerpted in Post 314), are falsehoods?