Posted on 03/19/2003 7:57:38 AM PST by Chancellor Palpatine
"I respect and admire the French, who have been a far greater nation than we shall ever be, that is, if greatness means anything loftier than money and bombs."
— THOMAS FLEMING, "HARD RIGHT," MARCH 13, 2003
rom the very beginning of the War on Terror, there has been dissent, and as the war has proceeded to Iraq, the dissent has grown more radical and more vociferous. Perhaps that was to be expected. But here is what never could have been: Some of the leading figures in this antiwar movement call themselves "conservatives."
These conservatives are relatively few in number, but their ambitions are large. They aspire to reinvent conservative ideology: to junk the 50-year-old conservative commitment to defend American interests and values throughout the world — the commitment that inspired the founding of this magazine — in favor of a fearful policy of ignoring threats and appeasing enemies.
And they are exerting influence. When Richard Perle appeared on Meet the Press on February 23 of this year, Tim Russert asked him, "Can you assure American viewers . . . that we're in this situation against Saddam Hussein and his removal for American security interests? And what would be the link in terms of Israel?" Perle rebutted the allegation. But what a grand victory for the antiwar conservatives that Russert felt he had to air it.
(Excerpt) Read more at nationalreview.com ...
There hasn't been an effective one in that time period because of a very concerted and very correct set of Federal actions, you dolt. The segregationists had to dragged kicking and screaming into the 20th century, but it finally happened, thank God. To you paleocons, your preference is to romanticize that earlier time period, and your political preference would be to regress to that earlier era when white men were white men, and black men were subservient.
But there have been racial issues, serious racial issues in the past 30 years in the north. Ahh, but those don't count because they're not they're not down South are they?
LOL. I knew you wouldn't be able to present factual evidence, so you've resorted to name calling? Don't worry Chancey, I wouldn't stoop to your level. You're a riot!! Oops, not bus riots (as you've had in the north in the past 30 years), just a comedic riot
"The civil rights amendment has led to FORCED hiring and FORCED restriction of firing of whomever the fed regards as a special class."
No one is forcing you to work alongside people of different races. You can quit whatever job you have where people with whom you do not want to associate with work.
The paleos--or more accurately, the Confederates--dream about a war that's been over since 1865, in which not one veteran is left alive, and only have heard romantic tales of the Old South from movies (OD'ing on the first part of "Gone with the Wind" crossed with "Birth of a Nation"), and fondly dream of the day that The South Will Rise Again.
Well, they've had about 138 years (minus a few weeks). And all I hear is some white supremacist fantasy (hard core or soft core). At some point they're going to have to come out of their dream world, stop pledging allegience to a flag and a counry that hasn't existed for over 1 3/8th centuries and if they don't want to be citizens of the United States of America, they can either try seceding again or leave the country.
"But there have been racial issues, serious racial issues in the past 30 years in the north. Ahh, but those don't count because they're not they're not down South are they?"
North?
South?
"...one nation, under God..."
The original pledge was written by a Socialist in 1892 with 'under God' added in the 1950s. And the original intent of that pledge has done its job well. Forget the document and remember the flag. We'd fight to say a few pretty words instead of defending the rights and responsibilities outlined in the Constitution. Sorry I don't say pledges to symbols, and considering that 90%+ of the people that say the pledge don't remember what the document it is supposed to represent says, the conservative argument should be to return to the Constitution instead of pushing a mantra.
Pray, when have I spoken of a white supremacy? I honor the men of all colors and races that fought for the nation of my ancestors. Of course to deny such men is a travesty but that's what you would have us do. You want white supremacy perhaps you need to read lincoln, Sherman, and Grant. But I take it you would rather have us pledge to a flag of the nation that survived? Again I ask, where is the Pledge of Allegiance outlined in the Constitution or where have you seen documentation of the majority of the Founding Fathers pledging to a symbol instead of the document for which that symbol stands
Get back to me when you have something valid instead of a Socialist rallying cry written 103 years after the document that founded this nation was written
And for the record, while I have questions about this war (as any honest patriot may have) I support the troops, the President's decision, and pray for a swift and decisive victory by these United States
"...the conservative argument should be to return to the Constitution instead of pushing a mantra."
I've had it with you blowhards who think that you, and you alone, know what the right thing to do for this nation, and the "conservative movement" is.
Meanwhile, you are in here talking crap, and dividing the nation into North and South.
You want "Balkanization"? Nothing more Balkanizing thatn your idiotic "North and South" rants.
ONE NATION!
Got it?
Not North, not South....ONE NATION!
I for one, could not be more delighted that the idiotic idea of a divided United States was resoundingly beaten to a pulp by Lincoln and the Union.
So much so, that two hundred years later, Johhny Reb is still smarting from the ass kicking.
You bet you've got his number, Luis :-))
No I do not want 'balkanization'. However of the Founders, only a few wanted as strong a national government as we have now. Hamilton and his ilk argued strongly for everything that we have now. The Constitution established a federal government limited in its powers by an equal power of the states. I'm not talking about dividing the nation into north and South, what I am talking about is what, by the majority of the original patriots, was argued and fought for. Equal power. Fifty separate and sovereign states joined together into a voluntary union allowing the federal government certain limited powers and nothing else. Of course that's from historical documents, and I've found with most statists (which apparently you are) you could give a d#mn for what the Founders wanted. No sir, you've bought into the progressive patriotism of the late 19th and early 20th century. Feelings are more important than what's written in the document. Facts? We don't need facts!! Of course you haven't bothered debating the fact that the Pledge was written by a Socialist, but then again why would you? The Federal Republic has long been replaced by a socialist democracy.
But hey who cares, right? As long as we salute the flag, who gives a care, right? To devil with the document behind the symbol. We've got to get the kiddies to say the pledge and then maybe when they've gotten to the age that we think they fully understand (by which time they won't care) we'll teach them the 1,2,3s of the Constitution. Of course it will be in a federally funded school system, so only the parts that make sure they worship the state will be taught (as is done today). And as for underlying issues that have plagued this nation of states since its founding, well we'll make those real easy to understand platitudes that don't even scratch the surface of the reasoning behind the arguments. They'll be good little subjects
And what will happen? They will come to depend more and more upon the national government and less upon their local communities, the states. Alexander Tyler's statement will be complete. At the rate the national bureaucracy is growing, I imagine another 100 years or so before this nation of states tops starts to fall under its own weight. We'll be back in bondage. Not of another nation but of our own government
And what pray did the Founders have to prevent this? What imaginable document could they have come up with to defend against an Empire? Why yes, I believe it was the Constitution. And now conservatives and liberals alike are willing to throw it away so they can pledge to a symbol that represents a document they threw in the garbage so long ago
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people
Since I figure you've never read that, look real close. One of those nasty Amendments. Ask yourself what this government has taken upon itself in the past 140 years. And ask yourself if any of it is covered in the Constitution. Of course, I forgot, we care about feelings, so then again don't bother. Your feelings nor my feelings are in the Constitution. What is there in black and white is what the federal government is supposed to do and no more
You ask me if I'm a patriot? Yes I am. More so than David Frum and the neocon line by far. Maybe I don't pledge to symbols, maybe I choose to believe that one day we can return to the Constitution. But brother we've got a long way to go and lot of the feelgoods that are out there to pacify the masses have to be faced up to for what they are. Not the original intent of the Founders and not good for this voluntary union of states
Maybe you should state for the record what these Christian and southern beliefs are, and how they led you to the conclusion that the US should not go to war with Iraq.
"I hear defense of the segregation era from these paleos as well as the constant rant of freedom of association."
This argument that the government is somehow intruding on or freedom of association is such a pantload. They simply want the ability to discriminate.
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