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To: Republicanus_Tyrannus; tpaine; forest; MEG33; HumanaeVitae; Torie; Texas Mom; Luis Gonzalez; ...


This was posted in 1997? That was what, six years ago? For this article to need point by point refuting - the article itself must seem prescient. It must have outlined developments which should have taken place since its initial publication.

It has not. There are no goose-stepping hordes of Federal Polize knocking on doorways with truncheons. There is no law on the books making "certain" speech - outside of conspiracy- illegal. (and before you try to jump on that aside - conspiracy has ALWAYS been illegal in the US). There has not been anyone in America dragged off to concentration camps for saying rude things - or even the "wrong" things in social situations. In short - this article posits a police state. It claims that such a thing is imminent.

And it states such six years ago.

# 39 by Republicanus_Tyrannus
**********************

On October 26, 2001, President Bush signed the USA Patriot Act into law. On that date, we became a police state, 4 years after the Pon Paul article we're discussing on this thread.

We live in a police state today.

The Patriot Act allows :

1) physical searches without a warrant
2) wiretaps of telephones without a warrant
3) surveillance of internet activity without a warrant
4) Grand Jury information to be shared among government and foreign agencies
5) information on citizens to be shared among government and foreign agencies
6) DNA markers to be taken from anyone accused of committing or considering a violent act
7) full access to our financial and banking records.
8) full access to our educational records

"Violence" has been re-defined as any act that uses, attempts to use, threatens to use, or has the potential of becoming violent.

"Terrorism" has been re-defined to mean any act of violence, any intention to commit violence, any activity that would threaten or coerce others to change their activities, any intention to threaten or coerce others to change their activities, any crime committed with the use of a computer, any racketeering activity, and any act that interferes with interstate or international commerce.

Since local and state commerce are already known to be defined as "interstate" by the federal government because of the drug "war," any crime that effects commerce is terrorism.

Any crime, no matter how simple, can now be defined as terrorism, so the special laws enacted against terrorists apply to any crime. Thus, a man who defrauds his company is a terrorist.

A protester outside of an abortion clinic is a terrorist, guilty of the crime of intimidating, or trying to intimidate, people into changing their behavior. A pimp with his stable of women is a racketeer, involved in illegal business activities, and so too is classified as a terrorist.

A drug dealer is also involved in illegal business, as is his customer, who at the least is guilty of aiding terrorism through buying the illegal product of the drug dealer. The television commercials aren't just advertising. Drug buyers are now legally defined as terrorist supporters under the Patriot act.

Any terrorist, or supporter of terrorism, is subject to secret arrest, without a trial, without a lawyer, and without even notifying his family. Any person arrested under the terrorism statutes can be held indefinitely, without charges ever being filed.

In addition, the Patriot Act provides for sharing all law enforcement data among Federal, State, and Local police, and for co-ordination of response to any act of terrorism.

The Patriot Act creates to a Federal police force, with Local and State branches. It is a police force with the power to investigate crime both inside and outside the country, and unlimited access to all of our public and private information. It is a police force that doesn't have to explain it's actions.


Here's some quotes from the Patriot act :

"...Coordination of Federal, State, and local terrorism research, preparedness, and response programs must be improved..."

"...Private business, government, and the national security apparatus increasingly depend on an interdependent network of critical physical and information infrastructures, including telecommunications, energy, financial services, water, and transportation sectors..."

"...The support provided under paragraph (1) shall include the following :

"...(B) Acquisition from State and local governments and the private sector of data necessary to create and maintain models of such systems and of critical infrastructures generally..."

95 posted on 03/08/2003 2:09:39 PM PST by exodus
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To: exodus
The Patriot Act allows : 1) physical searches without a warrant

Physical searches without a warrant have been allowed for centuries.

98 posted on 03/08/2003 2:13:57 PM PST by Roscoe
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To: exodus
Good refutation. Thanks for the ping.
102 posted on 03/08/2003 2:18:51 PM PST by jammer
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To: exodus
On that date, we became a police state....

Only if you are a terrorist. Are you a terrorist?

105 posted on 03/08/2003 2:20:28 PM PST by Illbay (Don't believe every tagline you read - including this one)
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To: exodus
I promise to never giggle again when discussing Ron Paul.
110 posted on 03/08/2003 2:25:38 PM PST by MEG33
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To: exodus
If hitlery ever gets into office, you can guarantee that anyone who speaks out against her will be a "terrorist".
161 posted on 03/08/2003 3:35:30 PM PST by Blood of Tyrants (Even if the government took all your earnings, you wouldn’t be, in its eyes, a slave.)
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To: exodus
Well welcome to the post 9-11 world where we are chasing terrorist home as well as over-seas.
168 posted on 03/08/2003 3:58:58 PM PST by A CA Guy (God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: exodus
Please remove me from your ping list.

Thank you.

174 posted on 03/08/2003 4:18:07 PM PST by ImpBill ("You are either with US or against US!")
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To: exodus
Thanks. Great post.
185 posted on 03/08/2003 5:21:33 PM PST by 185JHP ( Brisance. Puissance. Resolve.)
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To: exodus
On October 26, 2001, President Bush signed the USA Patriot Act into law. On that date, we became a police state, 4 years after the Pon Paul article we're discussing on this thread.

We live in a police state today.

If people cannot see this, I would say that this is what they mean by " dumbing down of America."

202 posted on 03/08/2003 9:10:23 PM PST by DreamWeaver
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To: exodus
***yawn***
206 posted on 03/08/2003 10:12:36 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Ever So Humble Banana Republican)
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To: exodus
Geeze....I'm shocked that you haven't been banned for posting this (it in no way makes Shrub shine any brighter) !!

Great Job !! !!
212 posted on 03/08/2003 11:23:22 PM PST by Coto (..used to be seen in these parts as "The Alabama Wild Man"..'til I spoke to much of the truth.)
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To: exodus
BTTT
272 posted on 03/10/2003 12:00:08 PM PST by Tauzero
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To: exodus
Thanks for the ping.

Interesting thread ... disintegrated rapidly though.

I agree with your concerns over the US A[nti-]Patriot Act (and all it's bastard children). Unfortunately, (or fortunately, if you're a Republican), we're in the minority and our dissenting views are viewed in the same light as, and with the same disgust and revulsion, as we view those of Marx, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, et al.

The problem here is that the article is clearly critical of Republican policies. This is not the place to be critical of Republicans, or their policies.

Everyone knows that a Republican police state would be benign, loving, free of ambition, greed and error. Constitutional restrictions on power don't apply to Republicans because they always have the best interests of their subjects at heart and would never consider abuse of power. In fact, the expression: "Republican Police State" is an oxymoron. The Republican party is the epitome of goodness, completely above reproach.

Disclaimer: In no way should the above statements be construed as critical of Republican policies.

366 posted on 03/11/2003 9:40:01 AM PST by Washington_minuteman (Visiting Constitutionalist)
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