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1 posted on 03/06/2003 3:04:51 PM PST by kattracks
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To: kattracks
If they start handling burglars and rapists this way, I'll be concerned.

2 posted on 03/06/2003 3:07:37 PM PST by RobRoy
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To: kattracks
Can we toss in human shields?
3 posted on 03/06/2003 3:07:37 PM PST by Caipirabob (Democrats.. Socialists..Commies..Traitors...Who can tell the difference?)
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To: kattracks; FreeTheHostages
Treating citizens as enemy combatants was upheld by the Supreme Court in the Quirin case in 1942.
4 posted on 03/06/2003 3:10:32 PM PST by aristeides
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To: kattracks
Court trials could open the government to questioning by defense lawyers that might reveal intelligence secrets, sources and methods, Ashcroft said.

I heard an interesting little tidbit yesterday from a friend of mine with a lot of contacts overseas.

He says that the attempt by the U.S. to justify this war in Iraq is so lame because they can't reveal 95% of the things that would dispel all doubts about what the U.S. is doing.

The reason for this, he says, is that if the American public was made aware of the gross incompetence, malfeasance, dereliction of duty, etc. that has been tolerated in any number of government agencies over the last ten years, the ability of the U.S. government to function in any capacity would be severely compromised.

Item #1 on his list was the asinine approach of the Clinton administration to the first attack on the World Trade Center in 1993. I was quite startled at what this guy knew, considering he wasn't even a U.S. citizen until recently.

5 posted on 03/06/2003 3:19:53 PM PST by Alberta's Child
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To: kattracks
"You've got to be concerned that these are American citizens ..."
merely because their parents were passing through when they were born.

They care nothing for America, and rightfully owe their allegiance to another country.

We're too generous. Citizenship must require some allegiance.

6 posted on 03/06/2003 3:21:25 PM PST by mrsmith
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To: kattracks
New York Rep. Jose Serrano said there is a widely held perception that the detentions of Jose Padilla and Yaser Esam Hamdi as "enemy combatants" are unfair.

Waaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh...It's not faaaaaaair...waaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh....

7 posted on 03/06/2003 3:29:38 PM PST by Luna (Evil will not triumph...God is at the helm)
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To: kattracks
Failing that, "traitor" might work. Don't they give the death penalty to traitors?
9 posted on 03/06/2003 3:42:04 PM PST by MizSterious
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To: kattracks
Controlling legal precedent in this matter is Ex-parte Milligan, 71 U.S. 2 (1866). Key quotes form the Supreme Court ruling:

No graver question was ever considered by this court, nor one which more nearly concerns the rights of the whole [p*119] people, for it is the birthright of every American citizen when charged with crime to be tried and punished according to law. The power of punishment is alone through the means which the laws have provided for that purpose, and, if they are ineffectual, there is an immunity from punishment, no matter how great an offender the individual may be or how much his crimes may have shocked the sense of justice of the country or endangered its safety. By the protection of the law, human rights are secured; withdraw that protection and they are at the mercy of wicked rulers or the clamor of an excited people. If there was law to justify this military trial, it is not our province to interfere; if there was not, it is our duty to declare the nullity of the whole proceedings. The decision of this question does not depend on argument or judicial precedents, numerous and highly illustrative as they are. These precedents inform us of the extent of the struggle to preserve liberty and to relieve those in civil life from military trials. The founders of our government were familiar with the history of that struggle, and secured in a written constitution every right which the people had wrested from power during a contest of ages. By that Constitution and the laws authorized by it, this question must be determined. The provisions of that instrument on the administration of criminal justice are too plain and direct to leave room for misconstruction or doubt of their true meaning. Those applicable to this case are found in that clause of the original Constitution which says "That the trial of all crimes, except in case of impeachment, shall be by jury," and in the fourth, fifth, and sixth articles of the amendments. The fourth proclaims the right to be secure in person and effects against unreasonable search and seizure, and directs that a judicial warrant shall not issue "without proof of probable cause supported by oath or affirmation." The fifth declares that no person shall be held to answer for a capital or otherwise infamous crime unless on presentment by a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger, nor be deprived [p*120] of life, liberty, or property without due process of law.

And the sixth guarantees the right of trial by jury, in such manner and with such regulations that, with upright judges, impartial juries, and an able bar, the innocent will be saved and the guilty punished. It is in these words:

In all criminal prosecutions the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation, to be confronted with the witnesses against him, to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defence.

Time has proven the discernment of our ancestors, for even these provisions, expressed in such plain English words that it would seem the ingenuity of man could not evade them, are now, after the lapse of more than seventy years, sought to be avoided. Those great and good men foresaw that troublous times would arise when rulers and people would become restive under restraint, and seek by sharp and decisive measures to accomplish ends deemed just and proper, and that the principles of constitutional liberty would be in peril unless established by irrepealable law. The history of the world had taught them that what was done in the past might be attempted in the future. The Constitution of the United States is a law for rulers and people, equally in war and in peace, and covers with the shield of its protection all classes of men, at all times [p*121] and under all circumstances. No doctrine involving more pernicious consequences was ever invented by the wit of man than that any of its provisions can be suspended during any of the great exigencies of government. Such a doctrine leads directly to anarchy or despotism, but the theory of necessity on which it is based is false, for the government, within the Constitution, has all the powers granted to it which are necessary to preserve its existence, as has been happily proved by the result of the great effort to throw off its just authority.

Every trial involves the exercise of judicial power, and from what source did the military commission that tried him derive their authority? Certainly no part of judicial power of the country was conferred on them, because the Constitution expressly vests it "in one supreme court and such inferior courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish," and it is not pretended that the commission was a court ordained and established by Congress. They cannot justify on the mandate of the President, because he is controlled by law, and has his appropriate sphere of duty, which is to execute, not to make, the laws, and there is "no unwritten criminal code to which resort can be had as a source of jurisdiction."

But it is said that the jurisdiction is complete under the "laws and usages of war."

It can serve no useful purpose to inquire what those laws and usages are, whence they originated, where found, and on whom they operate; they can never be applied to citizens in states which have upheld the authority of the government, and where the courts are open and their process unobstructed. This court has judicial knowledge that, in Indiana, the Federal authority was always unopposed, and its courts always open to hear criminal accusations and redress grievances, and no usage of war could sanction a military trial there for any offence whatever of a citizen in civil life in nowise [p*122] connected with the military service. Congress could grant no such power, and, to the honor of our national legislature be it said, it has never been provoked by the state of the country even to attempt its exercise. One of the plainest constitutional provisions was therefore infringed when Milligan was tried by a court not ordained and established by Congress and not composed of judges appointed during good behavior.

Key quote: they can never be applied to citizens in states which have upheld the authority of the government, and where the courts are open and their process unobstructed.

13 posted on 03/06/2003 4:00:53 PM PST by sourcery (The Oracle on Mount Doom)
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To: kattracks
STOP THE TERRORISTS!

HAVE YOU SEEN THESE SUSPICIOUS TYPES?

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16 posted on 03/06/2003 4:43:28 PM PST by eshu
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To: kattracks
Is New York Rep. Jose Serrano suggesting he himself is a real American??

The man is a traitorous American-In-Name-Only disgrace.

22 posted on 03/06/2003 7:16:18 PM PST by F16Fighter (Secure U.S. borders and DEPORT!)
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