Pope John Paul II may ask to personally address UN Security Council to stop Iraq war

AFP via Babelfish translation ^ | March 3, 2003

[onedoug]

He never seems to have mentioned them so publically, as now that the United States is prepared to confront this evil.

[Byron_the_Aussie]

..consider this, from Hobbes' Leviathan, in 1668:...

(:^D)

Had to go back 300+ years for some Catholic-bashing quotes, did you?

[Byron_the_Aussie]

..PR: "..at heart he's anti American and has demonstrated that time and time again..."

BA: "Time and again, eh? Give us four or five examples, then."...

I note that neither you, Patricia Ruth or any other Freeper are able to come up with one single sentence showing the Pope is 'anti-American', Robert. His concern over the sufferings of the Palestinians won't cut it. Why don't you quit while you're behind?

[Byron_the_Aussie]

...THe Pope should keep his mouth shut.

It he goes to see Bush, I would make him stand in the snow barefoot for three days....

Hey, 'Scholar Warrior', where do I start? With your spelling, your grammar, or your 'logic'?

Sheesh.

[Byron_the_Aussie]

..during the Cold War years, he got along very well with his Communist masters, and never really did get embroiled in Polish politics...Hoo yeah.

He 'got along so well with his Communist masters', that they sent a Bulgarian agent to shoot him.

[Byron_the_Aussie]

..I don't take the pathetic pope's word for ANYTHING anymore. The pope stopped communism the way greasy food stops heart disease...

A transparently malicious lie.

Creeps like you are to the First Amendment what John Hinckley Jnr was to the Second, mate.

[Chancellor Palpatine]

Only after he became Pope; keeping in mind he was a symbol in Poland and nothing more. It wasn't anything he did personally - especially considering that there is no evidence of underground activity on his part before he left to assume the Holy See - and definitely none after.

[Notwithstanding]

There is evidence of extremely overt activity by the pope in his pastoral work to undermine the commies - as well as covert activty before and after the fall of the USSR.

Those interested in reading the details of this can read George Weigel's "Witness to Hope" - the acknowledged definitive and best-selling scholarly biography of the pope.

In addition, some of Reagan and Carter's intelligence and security folks (Reagan's Casey and Carter's Brzezinski) have been very candid about this pope's critical overt and covert role in the downfall of the evil empire.

[Faraday]

Non-violence can sometimes be an effective tactic. Pacifism is a philosophy in service of tyranny. I'll cast my lot with the 2nd Amendment.

[Notwithstanding]

Rosa Parks was peaceful but not passive.

She overcame tyranny through peaceful means.

[onedoug]

"...this pope's critical overt and covert role in the downfall of the evil empire."

So, what's happened to him relative to the evil we face now, in that he otherwise seems to find the UN a moral agent?

[A. Pole]

It wasn't anything he did personally - especially considering that there is no evidence of underground activity on his part before he left to assume the Holy See - and definitely none after.

I am not sure what you mean by "underground activity". Opposition in Poland was in the open by design. Only "secret" things were locations of the printing equipment or samizdat.

Cardinal Wojtyla was very supportive toward opposition and made many decisions/acts defying Communist government. For example, when Communists refused to permit the religious/patriotic procession in his city, he ordered faithful to go ahead anyway. This made a great impression and authorities were intimidated and did nothing.

He encouraged free intelectual or political activity under the umbrella of the Church. He acted countless number of times in support of truth and freedom. When he got elected Pope many people in oposition were regretful that they will lose his input. Yet he continued to provide help from abroad as well.

[Beck_isright]

"You're privy to the Pope's prayers, are you?"

So what you are saying is that despotism is ok in private according to the Pope and communism (now) in public is acceptable??? The Catholic Church has fallen in these Protestant eyes. First the blind eye turned to the rape of children in America and now the torture and murder of innocents in Iraq. When he speaks publically and quits inviting the Foreign Ministers of dictatorships (Aziz) into his offices, then and only then will I start to move back to respecting the "Church". In the mean time, I shall be part of the pragmatic realists who say the Pope and Catholic Church is nothing more than a bunch of dirty old men who have a political agenda which favors the Eurocrap.

[Beck_isright]

Auto-Attack-Mode? Why is it that when facts are stated it's called an "attack"? What a hypocritical statement.

[Anticommie]

The Pope needs to read this in the book of Romans.

The Popes never relied or quoted Holy Bible, they were always arrogant, corrupt, seeking earthly power to justified their earthly not divine causes, thats why Martin Luter got pissed with the Popes crap and started Reformation, which lifted christians on the higher level of ethics, morality, work ethics, amd spawned an enviroment in which further creators of Americam Constitution could created the awsome Unated States Of America.
Thats a kind of a shortcut, bur also a bottom line.

[A. Pole]

The Catholic Church has fallen in these Protestant eyes.

Is it something new? Did Luther or Calvin had a higher opinion?

[AmericaUnited]

I believe in cutting out the middle man, and going straight up stairs. The veil was rent 2000 years ago and these guys want to put it back up.

[Robert_Paulson2]

John Paul II decided to face it down.

---

I don't really think JP "faced" the soviets down. I do not believe he was responsible for tearing down the wall. I think you have an exaggerated view of his place in world events. I think he is a good man. BUT he did NOT bring down the soviets. WE did. that is the USA and her allies. but primarily ronald reagan.

JP was wise to position himself on OUR side... but he was NOT the backbone or the muscle of the operation... in my view. If it makes YOU feel better as a Catholic to believe that JP was the big hero... more power to you. But, it sounds rather ridiculous...

The "I will not support a war" JP... demanding to gorby... "MR. GORBYCHAFFF, TEAR DOWN THIS WALL..." and then a shake of Peter's staff... didn't actually happen.

In fact, it seems out of character for anything I have seen the pontiff do publicly, EVER. He does seem willing to side with the Russians and the FRENCH to keep us from killing off the mastermind and financial backer of 9-11 and a HOST of other worldwide atrocities... particularly the paid murdering of Jews in Israel... SADAAM INSANE... you are welcome to your opinion Byron... and it IS appreciated, but many of us, even loyal Catholics do NOT agree. JP is wrong with this decision if it is what is being touted to be. WRONG... and he needs to get his OWN house in order, before he starts lecturing us morally on ours. IF the vatican is a nation, with representation in the UN... then it needs to get it's own house in order... and to MANY MANY folks, Catholics included... the house of vaticus is in a high level of disorder.

The speck in america's eye... not as critical as the LOG in rome's, to many catholics.

[A. Pole]

JP was wise to position himself on OUR side.

I do not think that he tried to "position himself" on any side with the exception of his Church and his country.

[A. Pole]

He does seem willing to [...] to keep us from killing off the mastermind and financial backer of 9-11 [...] SADAAM INSANE.

Maybe because he is not aware of such connection?